Short run production question

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Ran in to a guy who owns a motorcycle fairing company, all come from china and he's a online seller.  He asked if I would be willing build from steel a tail section frame work that adapts a Suzuki GSXR rear tail to a Hyabusa frame.   I guess it a new style.  He said maybe there would be 50 at a time, but in the beginning he would want 2 ( I guess protypes). this would be a little above my pay grade but I could do it.  As we all know the first one will kick my ***! If I got gig I would prolly need to make a JIG and it will be complicated as it needs to connect to the frame, the seat connects to it and prolly other things I haven't even thought of yet.  Any suggestions on the money aspect?   any info would be great!It seemed like a good idea at the time!
Reply:Do the first as time and materials. Get some good pics and measurements and post them up, perhaps we can give you some easy ideas for jigs.
Reply:Are there any drawings ? Half the work is in the measuring, drawing, ordering. I've made a few things that promptly got sent somewhere else for mass manufacture, even without giving a drawing to the customer. Most of the time I was aware of this, other times people lead you on a little bit just to get it done right away. Make sure your time, and material is covered.Hope it works out for you, a fifty piece straight run job would be nice, might be able to make some money with that number.Airco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square waveMiller Synchrowave 180 sdMiller Econo Twin HFLincoln 210 MPDayton 225 ac/dcVictor torchesSnap-On YA-212Lotos Cut60D
Reply:Definitely get money on front end for initial startup.  Manufacturing will likely be nothing.  The low volume may be a nuisance at frequency of only 50/ episode if you are doing things manually and solely--If you have other things going on.  You may make sub it out yourself?Run through the fabrication procedure and manipulation.  How much touching is involved?  Is there machine work?  Will it be chucked and unchucked flipped and rechucked?  Fixed moved fixed in another fixture.Good luck.
Reply:Thanks for the quick response's,  knowing this guy does business with china it wouldn't surprise me if I made the prototype and he had it made over there for a bowl of rice.   If the customer decides to move forward will talk about "initial engineering cost for fabing a prototype".It seemed like a good idea at the time!
Reply:When I've done bids like this (rare for me) I gave quotes for building the jig too.I got bids for lazer cut parts at 5, 50, 100, 1000 pieces.They cut better, faster and much more accurately than I can.Absolutley do not do a cheap 1st one on promise of more work.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:That more work in the future line is a classic. I trust that as much as " the check is in the mail" or the classic " it just needs some minor work". In the OPs case it sounds like a lot of research, experimentation and headaches for something that will most likely amount to very little.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveAbsolutley do not do a cheap 1st one on promise of more work.
Reply:I think you'd have to have some sort of official confidentiality/proprietorship agreement in place to protect your interests. You do all the design work and build the 1st and/or 2nd prototype and then he shops it around in China (or anywhere) isn't going to work. The agreement should have a section that specifically addresses this issue and if your design or any similar design (minor or major difference) is made by someone else, you get specific royalties for every one sold. The other thing to consider is that there is a limited number of these frame modifications that will be sold. Not every Hyabusa owner is going to want a GSXR tail. Still could be a money maker for you but you need to protect yourself and who's to say someone else won't copy your design and build it themselves.
Reply:What kind of finish, paint, powder coat, chrome, I would think that would need to play a role in cost etc.IMPEACH BIDEN!NRA LIFE MEMBERUNITWELD 175 AMP 3 IN1 DCMIDSTATES 300 AMP AC MACHINEGOD HELP AMERICA!“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream".RONALD REAGAN
Reply:Sounds like you should charge an hourly rate for the design, and mock up or build of the first couple you make.  Who cares if the buyer goes to China to have them duplicated.  He came to you with his idea.  He is a paying customer and if you are not too busy knock em out when time permits.  If he wants to cheap out and pinch pennies and haggle over the price for production runs then let him go to the next guy.  Get your money up front for your time and figure out how long it would take to do production runs so you know how to charge properly.  Get paid for all of it up front.  If he is serious he’ll pay to have it done.  He came to you not the other way around.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo.  Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:I forgot to ask.  Do you have a minimum hourly charge to even begin a job that you get from your customers up front for the cost of materials & time?  It would cover any losses of material and time should the customer change his mind or not like your initial renderings and choose to go elsewhere with out paying up.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo.  Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by welding1He asked if I would be willing build from steel a tail section frame work that adapts a Suzuki GSXR rear tail to a Hyabusa frame.
Reply:Kevin's point should be front and center modifying 2 manufacture's product for general public use.  No telling what someone can blame you for down the road.  Good reason why over the road truck frames have "do not weld or drill" signs on them. Google search found this.If you do not follow the manufacturer's guild lines you are in violation of federal laws.DIY CNC Plasma table USB BOB Price THCHypertherm 65Everlast PowerTig 255 EXTMiler 180 Mig13" metal latheMill/ DrillECT, ECT,
Reply:Original part from Suzuki is aluminum and powder coated and doesn't look like a small shop knocked a few!  this guy seems to be like china things, cheap to produce and cheap for a cheap part!It seemed like a good idea at the time!
Reply:Originally Posted by CAVEMANNWhat kind of finish, paint, powder coat, chrome, I would think that would need to play a role in cost etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by N2 WeldingI forgot to ask.  Do you have a minimum hourly charge to even begin a job that you get from your customers up front for the cost of materials & time?  It would cover any losses of material and time should the customer change his mind or not like your initial renderings and choose to go elsewhere with out paying up.