TIG arc

admin

I've never used a TIG welder before and have some basic questons if anyone has the time.  I created a thread in the Miller section and about an Econotig and received some excelent information (the 2 used machines I picked up). Well, I have no gas as of yet so this is most likely causing my problem, while welding with no gas with 3/32 tungsten (I don't know what flavor Tungsten it is because it came in the torch with one of the machines), I sharpen the tungsten for mild steel with a somewhat sharp point and grinding down toward the tip not circular or around the tip of the tungsten. When I start welding (again with no Argon or any gas period) the arc wonders and the tip balls fairly quick (the balling could be because I have no idea if this the correct tungsten)  So I ask;Will the Argon gas flow keep the arc consistent or keep it from wondering so much, and also help aid in keeping the tungsten from balling?
Reply:Will the Argon gas flow keep the arc consistent or keep it from wondering so much, and also help aid in keeping the tungsten from balling?
Reply:If you weld without gas the tungsten turns blue and is contaminated.  Go buy a gas bottle.  Contaminated tungsten will wander all over the place.Thermal Arc 185 TigHTP 200 MigCraftsman O/A1942 Bridgeport Mill12 Ton Hyd PressConsew Walking Foot
Reply:Excellent information! That’s just what I theorized.   What gas flow should be used for 18 to 14 gauge mild steel? 10 to 12 CFH? (Anyone want to give me couple hundred bucks so I can go get a S tank of Argon??) Well, I guess I’ll wait till next payday or the one after..
Reply:i use 15- 20 scfh.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Found out what the argon protects the tungsten from.  Its oxygen.  When tungsten is heated up, it reacts excitedly with the oxygen in the air.  So now we know..Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Originally Posted by DoolittleFound out what the argon protects the tungsten from.  Its oxygen.  When tungsten is heated up, it reacts excitedly with the oxygen in the air.  So now we know..
Reply:poof is the correct technical term Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:poof is what i'm doing now...  i need  keep in touch.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Poof WOW.....  The lightbulb theory makes sense... I knew that the gas would force the arc down from the cup (and directly on to the desired area of the work piece) , but...... never thought it would shield and cool the Tungsten so much.
Reply:The gas does not actually force the arc. For gas flow to have any real effect of the path of an arc it wold have to be moving much faster than what a shielding gas regulator can put out, this is why most plasma cutters use compressed air at around 90 psi (IIRC shielding gas regulators put out a max of 20 psi).The purpose of the shielding gas in TIG welding is to provide a protective atmosphere for the weld and the tungsten and to provide an atmosphere that is capable of forming a stable arc.Also, the cooling effect of the gas on the tungsten is marginal at best. Gas cooling (whether it be Argon, CO2, or plain air) is very inefficient. For gas cooling to be anywhere near effective the object being cooled has to have a very high surface area-to-mass ratio (think car radiators and the heat-sinks used in electronics) with as high of gas flow rate as possible (this is why radiators have fans). "Air-cooled" torches generally rely on the use of relatively low currents and duty cycles to keep from overheating. "Gas-cooled" (as in shielding gas) are designed so that the shielding gas flows through and around the torch cable, the part that is most in danger of overheating (just ask Zap about the time he ran his water-cooled torch dry, it wasn't the torch or tungsten that overheated). The torch is also designed to maximize the contact between to shielding gas and the copper bits that make up it's internals. By the time the gas actually reaches the tungsten, it is already pre-heated and flowing in very straight lines parallel to the smooth surface of the tungsten (just about the worst possible way for cooling but the best for shielding purposes).The coolant in "water-cooled" torches is actually very efficient at cooling the torch, but the only cool the torch and cable, not the tungsten.The tungsten doesn't really require cooling, unlike the torch itself. Tungsten melts at ~6192 °F while the copper in the torch melts at only ~1984 °F. Even though the tungsten is in direct contact with a ~10000 °F arc, the contact is only at the one small point at the tip and the rest of the tungsten acts as a heat-sink. The rest of the tungsten is the cooled by being in direct (and firm) contact with the copper of the torch.Finally, when you do get a tank of shielding gas make sure it is PURE 100% Argon (or a Argon-HELIUM mix) do not attempt to use any shielding gas, for TIG, that contains ANY amount of things like CO2, Oxygen, Hydrogen or anything that is NOT argon or helium. Pure argon will almost always be cheaper than a argon-heluim mix.(wow, this post ended up longer than I expected...)Visit Tensaiteki.com
Reply:More questions, while welding mild steel 16 or 14 gauge. How long will lets say a 1/16 piece of tungsten last in minutes or hours of welding including regrinding?  How often should you re sharpen the tungsten?Again, thank's for the help, I really appreciate it.
Reply:Originally Posted by o.c.d.More questions, while welding mild steel 16 or 14 gauge. How long will lets say a 1/16 piece of tungsten last in minutes or hours of welding including regrinding?  How often should you re sharpen the tungsten?Again, thank's for the help, I really appreciate it.
Reply:what you will find is that you can continue to weld with a contaminated tungsten.   but don't be fooled the arc doesn't go where you point it, it comes close, but you'll end up creating a puddle of gigantic proportions.  as soon as the tungsten comes in contact with anything (when arc is lit) it needs to be reground
Reply:wile i do understand being in a hury to try out a new welder, i have a hard time understanding how you would try to TIG without gas??you realy need to get a few books on TIG and atleast lern the basics befor continuing. it will give you some thing to read wile waiting for the tank to get therewhen you picked up the used econotig did you not know you needed gas ?? what other welder did you get and are you trying to weld with it without gas as well? and dose it need gas??just for fun what are you welding?? summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:If you want to play with it until you get some argon, go get some welding rods and switch the Econotig to stick mode.
Reply:excilent idea, TIG just dose not work without gas. grab some stick and have some fun. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:Thanks for the info. I already have a stick welder, TIG is new to me therefore somthing new and interesting. I'll just have to wait till next payday and get a cylinder, my welding supply said a S tank 150CF runs around $230.00 so I thought that would be better than buying one too small if I really like this thing. I found a 200CF (what the seller said in his post, I have no idea which tanks that is) helium cylinder on craigslist for $100.00 does anyone know if a gas supply will take that on trade for Argon if the tank is not stolen? I appreciate all the help.
Reply:a 150 is a good size tank, big enough to get your $ werth out of filling it and small enough to be able to move it around as needed. as for the 200 if you can getit for 1/2 the price of the 150 i would go for it BUT FIRST CHECK with your gas guy to see if he will fill it. all the gas suplyers are diferent from one part of the contry to another and even from one side of the street to the other so you would be best to check with who you intend to get your gas from as they will set the roules around here its hard to find some one to fill an owned tank over a 80, i have to drive 50 miles for a fill to be able to use my own bottles.as for swoping the tanks again it will depend on the dealer. also make shore its got a recent test stamp on it or you could end up with a $100 yard orniment if it fails the test.good luck and welcome to TIG, well almost. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:Hey Fun4now,  Thank you. What tank is that 200CF? I think I had that size one 2 years ago that my church rented or got from somewhere for my wife to fill balloons for a big party, MAN that thing was heavy I recall the cap was about 5'7" or a couple of inches below eye level for me. The odd thing is given that Helium is so much lighter than air and that cylinder was so big, the damn thing should have just floated...... But I still remember loading and unloading it in the van to-from the church. I got to go on a buisness trip for a week to New York, home for the following weekend then on a hunting trip to Alabama. So I probably won't bother with that craigslist tank (it'll probably be gone anyway by the time I get back)... So, the argon will have to be put on hold untill Feb. which sucks but works-work and hunting-can't wait.Tom
Reply:the tank is heavy because its about 1/2" thick. its designed to hold back 3000 PSI and healeum cant lift that sucker.the 150 is a good size i rented a 155 for about 3 years befor getting my own tanks. i liked the 155 just fine. i now have a 80 & 125 soon to be 80=C25 and 125=Argon.TIG realy eats up some gas when in the lerning process. all the start's and stop's just kill ya with the post flow going. 1 sec. of weld and stop but the post still flows out the gas for another 5-10 sec. depending on what amps you are running.seemed like my first 80 Tank emptyed prity fast so i'm going to switch the tanks around to get argon in the larger 125 tank.good luck on the hunt. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:O.C.D., it sounds like you are thinking of a 330cf tank. That's what I've got, bought it used for $50, and it was full when I got it! I weld quite a bit and I got 3-4 months before refills. The last time it cost me $55 to swap it for a full one. I love having that much gas, but that thing is a @#%$ to move around!
Reply:yep a 330 would realy get you your $ werth at fill time but could be a pain to move around, although if ya got a big transformer for a TIG its not likely to be getting moved too much any way. i think the 155 is about as big as you can move around without any real truble, and ya still get a fair amount of gas at fill up.i'm still looking into a Co2 for my MIG so i can use both my 80 and 125 for TIG but a few 155's would shore be nice to make the drive werth it. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.