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I am getting very close to putting the sheet metal on my frame work and I've never done any sheet (plate?) work before. The plan is to to get a single 6ft X 11ft X 1/8 plate for the floor; weld that first, then get 12g for the sides and tailgate and weld them in place. My question is: When welding the 6 X 11 should I start in the middle and work my way to one end and then go back weld to the other end; or start at one end and work my way to the other end; or go from one side to the other (left to right)? How far apart should my beads be and how long should they be? I'm sure I don't need 6 ft long beads.I have an old buzz box that I've done 99% of the welds with and now I'm learning with a new Lincoln mig 180. Attached Images
Reply:Here's another pic for you guys Attached Images
Reply:Looks nice. Did you buy a set of plans or design it yourself? If plans, whose? Any idea how much you have into it in materials and time? Couple of thoughts. 1/8 will warp rather quickly so I would keep the welds short and skip around. If you plan on hard use I might do the sides first then the floor. That way when you need to replace the floor its not under the sides. I'm also a bit concerned about where the cylinder meets the floor. Looks a bit weak if you plan on any moderately heavy loads say dirt, concrete or stone. I would add some channel at 90 deg on each side. The channel flat has very little strength. Remember this is lifting all the weight. If working from plans ignore this. I also wonder about the floor twisting as its raised if not on level ground. I can't tell how big the floor channel is but I'm guessing 3" or maybe 4". 4" should be good, 3" may be light.Last edited by DSW; 05-18-2008 at 08:24 AM.
Reply:Hey Weekender,Looks nice, although image one is a blank for me for me.As to a welding pattern on the floor - Depends on how flat the sheet lays down. Start with your poorest fit or "oil can" and work away from that. If you weld the floor nearly 100% around the corners and the front and rear crossmembers, it will add much strength; as the floor will become a tension member. Is the tailgate and hinge removable? The trailer will be more versatile, (that means more people will borrow it) if it is.Eventually someone will dump rocks into it from a bucket, and then raise the bed while the gate is latched; any extras you can add now, will pay off. Maybe just a few light weight pieces at the wide spaced crossmembers?Of course it all depends on the ultimate use, you don't want to build a tank retriever to haul yard waste!Consider what DSW brought up about the cylinder anchor. All the weight, (bed and load) forward of the hinge point, will be on the cylinder anchor during the start of the dump cycle.Thanks for the build pic!
Reply:I agree with the other guys above about the ram mounting location on the floor. That will be the weak link in the trailer. The ram should be sandwiched between two rails with the flats facing each other and the webs pointed out for proper strength. Other than that looks pretty good to me. Dave.I am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Originally Posted by weekenderI am getting very close to putting the sheet metal on my frame work and I've never done any sheet (plate?) work before. The plan is to to get a single 6ft X 11ft X 1/8 plate for the floor; weld that first, then get 12g for the sides and tailgate and weld them in place. My question is: When welding the 6 X 11 should I start in the middle and work my way to one end and then go back weld to the other end; or start at one end and work my way to the other end; or go from one side to the other (left to right)? How far apart should my beads be and how long should they be? I'm sure I don't need 6 ft long beads.I have an old buzz box that I've done 99% of the welds with and now I'm learning with a new Lincoln mig 180.
Reply:I agree, that cylinder mount needs to be strengthened big time. I can see a cylinder rod punching thru the floor if you don't. I personally have never liked a single cylinder center mount unless it was mounted in a scissor frame of some sort, which widens out the lift point considerably. "Most" of the dump trailers of that size that I have worked on used two cylinders 3 or 4 inches in Diameter and it is attached on the sides rails which is where it would be strongest. Good luck and keep us posted on the progress.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:If you're working by yourself, and have confidence in your layout abilities, layout and drill small holes in the sheet (about 3/8" diameter) every 12" or so that match up with the crossmembers ... then you can work on top, put the weight and pressure where you need it yourself, and simply plug-weld the floor to the frame, do it fast and quick, and do like Mr. Powelson said, quench with water, which is a very often overlooked, but valuable proceedure, when working with sheetmetal especially.edit: Just went back and looked at the pics, if you can get it laid out square, and welded down square to the frame, I wouldn't worry too much about any "dipsy-doos" or "wows" ,,,,, you will soon have plenty of those, just from normal use, between the frame rails. This can be prevented somewhat, but only at the cost of much additional weight .....Last edited by mark8310; 05-18-2008 at 05:55 PM.
Reply:DSW, I started out copying a trailer on a lot until it was sold. I have about 1500 in materials (pump was donated) and probably 100 hours in the last year and a half; it was put on hold for dads pacemaker and prostate removal and my first baby. I got the basic dimensions; what size channel was used and where, that kind of stuff. Ive been thinking about beefing up the support around the cylinder also; I used 3 on the bed and I have enough left over for two more braced alongside of the original like you and dabar39 suggested.Denrep, The tailgate is pinned on the side so the whole thing can be removed from the side and at the top it is removable. I plan on leaving a shovel with it for those special occasions when its overloaded also.Dave powelson, thanks for the good directions; just what I needed.Thanks for the feedback guys, it may take me a while but Ill get it done; I never get in a hurry. Im including a pic of the original for comparison. Attached Images
Reply:As another suggestion, whatever method you end up using to strongly hold that cylinder eye (2 channels with shear pin between is stout, etc.); the joint tying into both frame members needs a doubler plate, as crudely sketched below:http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1211149514The plate outline is in blue and dashed, hidden line blue. welding is in yellow.No welding across the frame beam---only along its length.This:-allows the floor beams to flex without cracking-if there's no welding across them-stiffens the floor beams for the additional thrust of the cylinder Attached ImagesBlackbird
Reply:Originally Posted by weekenderDenrep, The tailgate is pinned on the side so the whole thing can be removed from the side and at the top it is removable.
Reply:The issue that I see also is that the hyd. ram is attatched to the center of the channel. On the red trailer it is attatched close to a cross beam, which would be alot stronger. Channel just doesn't have that much strength laying flat like that. Other than that, the trailer looks real nice.The plug weld idea sounds good for the floor.Last edited by Mark...; 05-18-2008 at 09:01 PM.
Reply:I agree with everyone on the weak position where the ram attaches under bed. It won't be long before you'll start to see a buldge in the floor.Another weak position is where the side uprights attach to the bed frame. They are not attached to the same place where the bed crossmembers attach. This will allow the pressure of the load to press out, twisting the bed rail between where the crossmembers attach and where the uprights attach. Look closely at the red trailer and you'll see the uprights are welded at the end of the crossmembers. A good toprail can help greatly with that stress.It looks like you have more distance between the crossmembers in the center of the bed (where the ram attaches) than you do at the ends of the bed. Generally speaking, the load is usually greater (deeper) in the center of a bed than it is at either end. This may tend to sag the sheetmetal between those crossmembers more, not that the sagging will hurt much, just be aware that it may happen.Last edited by alanh; 05-18-2008 at 10:03 PM.
Reply:looks great It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build that matters
Reply:DSW, You can't see from the side of the trailer that the pic was taken, but there is a second set of hinges with removable pins that allows the whole tailgate to swing open barn door style. I don't plan on taking the gate off much because after lugging it off a couple times I'll be looking for a hoist.By the way; everything was cut using the Harbor Freight porta band. O/A is a little pricey for me; maybe someday though!
Reply:Just how many yards of material do you plan to unload?I can put 5 yards in my truck and the piston is 3 times the size of yours..I'll be glad to take pics of the assy if you need them..Just make sure you can actually get it to lift with the weight in it..Or it's all for not....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Mostly I'll be putting mulch in it and yard debris. Some gravel a couple times a year for dad's driveway. I don't mind if it won't hold a whole lot; as long as I'm not shoveling it.That and my truck is only rated at 7000 lbs; so if I'm not careful it may be caring a transmission.Your pics would be great; I appreciate the offer.
Reply:Originally Posted by weekenderMostly I'll be putting mulch in it and yard debris. Some gravel a couple times a year for dad's driveway. I don't mind if it won't hold a whole lot; as long as I'm not shoveling it.That and my truck is only rated at 7000 lbs; so if I'm not careful it may be caring a transmission.Your pics would be great; I appreciate the offer.
Reply:Here you go!Hope this gives you some info..The hydraulics are electric/hydraulic..The motor looks just like a starter for a Ford!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Zap, I've worked on Far to many of those in my day. They use that same style lift on farm wagons around here, and are constantly turning them over. They can be a pain to cut down and rebuild.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingZap, I've worked on Far to many of those in my day. They use that same style lift on farm wagons around here, and are constantly turning them over. They can be a pain to cut down and rebuild.
Reply:Those salty roads are BRUTAL!! City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Thanks Zap for the pics. My system is electric over/hydraulic also. It's just a big Ford starter motor also. I wanted to do a scissor lift but couldn't find one to copy and don't really know how to draw one up with confidence.
Reply:An update on the weekend project: I beefed up the cylinder by adding two pieces of 3 inch channel on either side with 3/8 flat joining all together to basically make one really big C-channel. I didn't cut it out and redo it because I don't have a torch. I put the bottom plate on and put the skin on the tailgate. I put plywood on the sides temporarily and filled it up with the roof from my garage. And when I took it to the dump...it worked! Ta Da! 1400 lbs. and it didn't hesitate.I weighed in at 1200 lbs.I might need to consider figuring out how to hook up the breaks.By the way, roofing s*cks!
Reply:Thanks for keeping us posted on how its going. Post up some picts of it, we'd love to see it now that you've progressed.Originally Posted by weekenderThanks Zap for the pics. My system is electric over/hydraulic also. It's just a big Ford starter motor also. I wanted to do a scissor lift but couldn't find one to copy and don't really know how to draw one up with confidence.
Reply:Originally Posted by weekender I might need to consider figuring out how to hook up the breaks.
Reply:I have one axle with electric brakes on it, but no controller yet. Is it possible to get one controller and move it from one truck to another? My dad has a heavier truck he wants to pull it with occassionally (2 or 3 times a year) for gravelling his driveway and I wanted to use my truck for mulch and yard debris. By the way he has a 89 Chevy and I have a 01 Ford.
Reply:I really do not see moving the brake controller once it is mounted. Its just too much hassle. I think that once you get one mounted and hooked up in a truck you will see what I am talking about. Even if it does work on both trucks. Just get 2 kits as they are not terribly expensive.
Reply:Or you could get the brake master cylinder built into the tounge of the trailer..Gotta put a pin in the slider to back up..We had that on a racecar trailer way back when and it always worked great!Hydraulic brakes everytime you step on the pedal with no truck "involvement".....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Nice Looking Trailer. Size and Capacity wise, it will be perfect for mulch and landscape debris. Just be careful about overloading with rock and fill. With approx 5k of payload that is no more than 2 yards. I got a car hauler recently, Cheap because the tandem 3500lb axles were bent. Old welder I know said load up the trailer with a car or something, and Put a floor jack in the middle of the beam, and Sure enough Made a Bend in the middle to Compensate for the overall bow of the axle. Good luckBilly
Reply:Looks good you may want to put some guides along the rail so if it starts lifting crooked it dont slip off .....with the pivot type cylinder mount or if ya turn and shift some stuff aroundmy old ford has the scissor lift and it twists pretty bad sometimes Had a load of MANURE stuck in it one time LOL OMG!!! the bed was standing straight up and the 20" long mount for the cylinder attachment on the frame stood up PULLED IT RIGHT OFF broke the welds and the bolts ...darn salt from up there eats everything the old thing made the trip out west salt free diet now LOL and lives on. .The only good thing it stopped before it snapped the lines so a couple applications of the brakes and it came back down from there on out everything I build or repair is WAY to over built was dealer install back then it FAILED "SALT KILLS" LOL ENJOY Last edited by Tony D; 03-25-2009 at 03:21 PM.Lincoln 225 Tombstone,Miller Big 20,Hobart 180,150' Argon,A/D hobart hood 22 Ton Log splitter,79 F350 dump eats 4.75 TONS and still turns cutters,grinders,And a Hypertherm POWERMAX 30 |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:11:41