Which Direction??????

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Made the lift shaft today, dodgin' raindropsThe question is...........  Which way does the axle tilt????Common sense says it oughta tilt to the back, but my drawings say it tilts to the front.BUT............  The wear marks on the axle, and support, show it was tilted to the backCALLING ALL MOLINE DUDES..........  YOUR INPUT IS NEEDED!!!!!!I suppose the critical thing is, how it will affect the balance of the machine as it is transported, and running in the groundThis is an 18 packer  Sip, look, scratch head, and repeat............. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The farther back the wheel, and the tilt is direction is part of that equation, the easier the lift will be but the less inch per inch rise you will get. Flip the tilt angle forward the lift will be harder but the rise will be greater. And of course forward or backward will also play a role in the amount of load that wheel will endure as it bounces down the road. But then I'm not a moline dude.  Had a moline wrench once tho.
Reply:Short chat outage for supper.  Reheat fried chicken.  Greasier second time aroundI think the lift effort might be the same depending on the lever, and drag link arrangement.  I see what your saying about it though.The thing that is a killer is how the axle will behave when it's rolling forward.  If the thing is tilted with the wheel forward, it will have a tendancy to hang up, and try to roll back under the bottom as it hits obstacles.Tilted with the wheel back, it acts as as its own stabilizer.  Any force from rolling forward will make it "tighter" against the restraints, and make it act as a shock absorber.Pic one.... axle hitting an obstructionPic two.... trying to walk under backwardsPic three... where it wants to go, but if positioned there in the first place it has nowhere to go, just strain on the linkage.  My finishing disc is set up this way on the lift wheels. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Samm, I guess I'm thinkin' different on this. Why can't you attach an arm of the right length directly to the axle shaft under the angle adj plate and weld the cyl mount to the adj plate w/ enough extension to accomadate the cyl so you can still change the angle if needed.   I can't see that the wheel being forward or back would make any difference on the lift as it is still lifting from the same point on the frame. Maybe I'm not thinkin' this through enough but that's the way I see it.If you mount the cyl like I'm thinkin', then the the wheel would have to be forward in order to put the load on the large side of piston, ie: the side opposite the rod. Figuring the "dead" end of the cyl is mounted to the frame.  Just throwin' out my thoughts on it, hope I'm not confusin' ya.                                               Mike  OK, I was posting while you were. You could still have the wheel back and mount as I suggested just mount the cyl so the rod end is attached to thr frame. As I said, just suggestions, thinkin' out loud or whatever.                                                MikeLast edited by mla2ofus; 05-15-2009 at 12:16 AM.Ol' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Gotta love my CAD  program"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by mla2ofusSamm, I guess I'm thinkin' different on this. Why can't you attach an arm of the right length directly to the axle shaft under the angle adj plate and weld the cyl mount to the adj plate w/ enough extension to accomadate the cyl so you can still change the angle if needed.   I can't see that the wheel being forward or back would make any difference on the lift as it is still lifting from the same point on the frame. Maybe I'm not thinkin' this through enough but that's the way I see it.If you mount the cyl like I'm thinkin', then the the wheel would have to be forward in order to put the load on the large side of piston, ie: the side opposite the rod. Figuring the "dead" end of the cyl is mounted to the frame.  Just throwin' out my thoughts on it, hope I'm not confusin' ya.                                               Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammGotta love my CAD  program
Reply:Could ya put up a drawing from your CAD program to show how the mech. lift will work? Sorry, Samm, my peepers are burnin'. Gotta get some shuteye. I'll check first thing in the AM when I've got a cup or two fo java in me.                         MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Thanks man, get some shuteye.Here's a pic of the stress on the drag linkage.Under compression it's gonna take a pretty beefy member to resist bucklingUnder stress, the linkage can be pretty minimal because it doesn't have to resist bucklingArrows indicate the direction of stress under load Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:&^%*&#$drew the lever on wrong sideThis is the assy under stress!!!! Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Samm,Don't know if this will help.  Here's pictures from a brochure for sale on eBay, item # 220389809232, buy it now price of $10. Attached Images
Reply:Another pic, cut from the brochure.  Quality not too good. Attached Images
Reply:I keep looking at the pics and coming up w/ different ideas. In my original suggestion, there's no way to put the load on the large side of piston which would put load on spacers on cyl rod when in the "down" position. Maybe mount belcrank arm on shaft between frame rails close to the angle adj plate w/ arm in approx same "clock position as vertical portion of axle. Then build cyl mount on angle adj plate.                          MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Sam, my 2 centsCaster angle on your truck/car is forward. I am in the process of building a drag chassis (atv motor) and the castor angle is 10 degres forward. The forward angle makes it want to go straight without steering input. If caster angle is rearward it will still want to go straight but rearward caster tends to cause wheel shimmy especially at higher rotation speeds.Peter
Reply:OK, Samm, I've put in my $.04 worth so I'm gonna clam up unless you ask for more input. Enjoyed helping ya, but I've put in enough. I'll keep watching the thread.                                     MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Thanks everybody!!!!What a messAll the pics i've seen say forward.  It might be that the guy that owned it bought with some pieces missing too, so he just let the wheel trail.  It may never have supported anything when he used it.There's been a lot of people geniunely trying to figure this out.  Not one smarta$$ reply.  That's pretty cool.  I sure appreciate it.  Now for the levers done today"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/