New to welding, Is flux Core enough?

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Hey guys, I am looking to buy a welder here and I was particularly eyeballing this one here:http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...gln.0&MID=9876I am new to welding, and from what I can think of now, I would be mostly doing 1/8" cold rolled steel rod.  I have read and heard about the certain, sludge that the flux core leaves behind, but it isnt very hard to get off?  Would a dremel polish wheel take it off, or do I actually need to chip it off individually?Does anyone have pics of a flux cored weld?I just dont think I need gas now, being they seem to be about the same thing, except for the smudge, the MIG wire feed would cost more, and would be more of a hassle to get running and maintain as far as getting gas and leasing a tank.Now that I looked, how about this one? http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...gln.0&MID=9876 That is up to 1/4" steel, and can upgrade to mig?My price range would probably be $350 max for everything.  I would like to stay with a name brand, and It would be nice for the option to upgrade to mig later.Thanks in advance! I appreciate it very much!-Pat
Reply:I would go for a mig not just flux core. I will save you money in the long run. If you don't have the cash for gas just don't get the reg and hose.Here's an old fluxcore weld of mine. Not cleaned up much so you can see the light grey flux left on the weld.My Photos on Flickr
Reply:Thanks for the pic Wildcat!Are you able to get a mig welder, and it will work fine without the gas?  I would do that, but wouldnt that be a weaker weld than flux cored?  What about this welder?http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...gln.0&MID=9876
Reply:Fluxcore burns hotter than gas at the same setting.. But gas is cleaner..When it runs right the spatter is minimum......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterFluxcore burns hotter than gas at the same setting.. But gas is cleaner..When it runs right the spatter is minimum......zap!
Reply:As for flux core, how hard are those little things to get off? Can you get them off without any tools, like just running your hand on them?
Reply:Originally Posted by redhatmanThanks for the pic Wildcat!Are you able to get a mig welder, and it will work fine without the gas?  I would do that, but wouldnt that be a weaker weld than flux cored?  What about this welder?http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...gln.0&MID=9876
Reply:I have a Northern Tool HUGE warehouse right behind my house, and a retail store down the road.  Their cheapest welder is a century I believe for about $350, then a hobart for $400.  The Home Depot carries lincolns.  They have one for $249.99, only flux core, 110, less than 100 amps.  I was looking at this one now, home depot by me has it for $369.99 and it can upgrade to mig. : "Lincoln ElectricWeld Pak 100HD Wire Feed WelderModel K2189-1"" Versatility, value and dependable performance are the hallmarks of this terrific wire feed welder from Lincoln Electric. You'll be welding with gasless, flux-cored wire on light gauge mild steel in no time - everything you need is right in the box! The Weld-Pak 100HD has 30-100 amps welding output and welds up to 1/4 In. steel. The welder plugs into a 115V (15 amp) outlet. The unit is compact, portable, lightweight and easy to use. The Weld-Pak 100HD comes with a 3 year warranty on parts and labor. (90 days warranty on the gun and cable). •  Easily upgrades to MIG •  Welds up to 1/4 In. •  3-year parts and labor warranty •  90-day gun and cable assembly warranty Internet/Catalog #100039229Store In-Stock SKU # 276977   Internet/Catalog #  100039229 Brand  Lincoln Electric Model #  K2189-1 Assembled Depth (In Inches)  19 Assembled Height (In Inches)  16 Assembled Weight (In LBS)  53 Assembled Width (In Inches)  15 Flux-cored Gas Shielded  .025 to .035" Flux-cored Self Shielded Wire Utilized  .035 In. Output Polarity  25-135A DC Power Requirement  115/1/60 Rated Output  88/18/20% UPC CODE  015082781327 Welding Capacities  Welds up 1/4 in. mild steel"So...there ya have it.  I would then get a cheap mask, and some leather welding gloves.  That should be it.ALL INPUT IS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! THANKS!-PatI'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Hey there Pat, fellow RCer(planes and heli) and another 15 year old here.I own that exact same welder setup with Flux-Core, It is VERY easy to use and easy to maintain. I believe my dad paid $320 for it when it was on sale at home depo last year. It's great for light work. Get a good auto-darkening helmet, some welding sleeves, gloves... and scrap metal, LOTs of it to practice running beads.
Reply:Cool, thanks ThunderRobo.  What all is required to maintain a welder like this?Here is the thread about my stuff guys: http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...2687#post92687I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:You'll also need a Wire brush, a nice welding table (metal table)( the school tables work GREAT), chipping hammer to get rid of the weld protective stuff.... Nothing much needed to maintain it....... just put a blanket over it when not in use.
Reply:OH, forgot to mention, IMHO, you should buy The Best helmet you can afford, as it is what prevents you from becoming blind.
Reply:You can also look into a Hobart 125, my neighbor just got one and it works great.It's $340 from northern tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by redhatmanAs for flux core, how hard are those little things to get off?  Can you get them off without any tools, like just running your hand on them?
Reply:Thanks for those pics flux.Guys, I am seriously considering the lincoln 100HD pack, flux core, can weld up to 1/4", and can convert to gas.  The only thing is, is that my dad wants me to find someway to get my money back, meaning a product that I could easily resell.  Any ideas?I'm 21 and learningAvid 4wd enthusiastASE Master tech (Automotive), mechanic/fabricator by trade
Reply:Learning a new Skill is worth the money already
Reply:Originally Posted by ThunderRoboLearning a new Skill is worth the money already
Reply:
Reply:Originally Posted by FluxI would go with 100HD for the money
Reply:I have a flux core MIG welder.To be honest... I hate it. I can weld quite well now I think, and I have found that the only way to get good penetration is to get the heat up a little higher, but that makes splatter go ALLLLL OVER the work piece. It completely tarnishes the look of a good weld. If you turn the heat down to try to reduce splatter, you end up with a little round worm-looking bead sitting on the top of the material, that you can practically chip off with a screw driver. I wish I could simply turn the feed down, but I am to the point where my feed is always around .5 on a speed scale from 0 to 11, and that is still too fast to be able to turn the heat down more. On top of that, the splatter and dust that forms quickly clogs and damages tips and shields, meaning cleaning or replacement is more often required. Lastly, on small welds like on engine parts and such, MIG is a pain because the welds often end up too thick due to the constant addition of material while welding. If I turn the feed down any slower the rate becomes inconsistant and I dont end up any better off. I know Id be more satisfied with it with some smaller .23 wire and gas, but I would still face other limitations that I dont like (difficulty feeding Al wire, welding outdoors, etc), and I could very easily still face the problem with too much material being added.  I have an O/A kit that I just need tanks for. I have heard that it is pretty much the hardest type of welding to learn, but I learned MIG pretty quickly (I learned by making a water tank for my car, and then refined them by making a turbo manifold), and I am SOOO looking forward to getting away from the limitations of my setup, with the prospect of being able to control whether material is added being the most exciting one. During that second project of welding the turbo manifold together, I had already begun to realize the annoyance of the inability to control how much material was being added. Ill keep the MIG around because it is fast and simple, but most everything will be done with the O/A welder until I get a good TIG welder. It would cost just as much to get my MIG welder working better as it would to get tanks for my O/A kit, plus I still wouldnt be able to get past the other unavoidable downfalls I mentioned (feeding Al wire, welding around tight parts, welding outdoors), not to mention the advantages of O/A like portability and versatility.My advice:If you plan on doing simple weld jobs around the house and repairs for your own stuff, a simple flux core is fine. However, that is what I planned on doing, but my interests have changed quite a bit over time and now I am dying to get something better. If I were going to go with a good MIG welder, it would DEFINATELY be a push-pull type so I could get much more consistant feed, especially at slower speeds, with multiple gas tanks for various materials. That would solve pretty much all my problems, other than the smaller ones of welding outside and portability. But at that point I would have just gone TIG and still be better off. In my experience and from many many resources, MIG is best for speed and ease, but the worst for control (mostly on small parts where it is most important, not for large parts, etc). Dont get me wrong you can get some great welds with a MIG welder, but for my uses (exhaust / intake manifolds, other intricate parts, etc), a TIG welder would be best by far, and I think I would still be more satisfied with a torch rather than the MIG. *edit*Ok. In this picture, you can see how the beads look overly built-up (even in the runner joints). This is because I was facing a balancing problem at the lower limits of the welder. If I turned the feed down anymore than I had it, I would get inconsistant feed rates as the wire would tend to get stuck and restart, obviously cusing big problems. I couldnt move any faster because the thick material (.105" tube) required a good bit of heat for good penetration. If I turned the heat up more, splatter would simply become ridiculous. Speaking of splatter, you can see especially between the first two runners on the left, the vast amounts of splatter that got stuck on the flange from welding the runners to the flange. The thick flange required more heat, causing that ridiculous amount of splatter I mentioned. In between the two middle runners is where I tried grinding it off, but it was very time-consuming and difficult to do as I got closer to the runners. You can also see how thick the welds are around the base of the runners where they attach to the flange. This is because, like I mentioned, the welder constantly adds material whether you like it or not. I had to go quite slow to get decent penetration on the thick flange material, and the bead would just keep growing and growing the whole time. And of course Im sure you can see that slag that formed around all the welds. That isnt so annoying usually, except in this case it was very difficult to get off due to the space restrictions for brushes and such, and also because it was mostly between the little balls of splatter than coated the areas, so the bristles couldnt get in between there. Very near the beginning of the process, I found myself annoyingly concentrating more on presentability of the welds rather than penetration, because that was the problem with the welder. Its easy to get a strong weld, but only way to get a good looking one (on small parts) is to get one of the higher end welders with push-pull feeders, plus of course using gas rather than flux-core. I absolutely can't wait to be able to do a weld while adding little to no material.Last edited by JMcDonald; 04-17-2007 at 03:35 PM.
Reply:JMcDonald............. FLux welding looks really good if you do the right prep and clean it up after..... and by looking at the header you welded.... i can see that there's no clean up work done. As far as reducing splatter, lower the wire feed speed.-Clarke 130EN-Miller MaxStar 150STL-Miller Elite 29' Roadster
Reply:Originally Posted by ThunderRoboJMcDonald............. FLux welding looks really good if you do the right prep and clean it up after..... and by looking at the header you welded.... i can see that there's no clean up work done. As far as reducing splatter, lower the wire feed speed.
Reply:What kind of wire are you using JMcMonald? This was done with some Hobart .35 on a low feed speed and maximum heat. Not the prettyest bead but i dont get any splatter either.[/QUOTE]-Clarke 130EN-Miller MaxStar 150STL-Miller Elite 29' Roadster
Reply:[/QUOTE]-Clarke 130EN-Miller MaxStar 150STL-Miller Elite 29' Roadster
Reply:Ok then well I have no idea whats wrong with my setup   It doesnt matter if I clean / brush the welding surfaces or not. Only on really thin stuff where I can turn the heat on the lowest setting is splatter kept to a reasonable minimum. On stuff thicker than ~20gauge the heat must be on the 2nd setting, or else the bead will end up being huge by the time there is enough heat to get good, consistant penetration. I dont know if its just a problem with my welder or what, but if I turn the feed down below ~.5, then it starts to get kinda inconsistant and it ends up having the same effect as holding the tip too far away from the work (constant making and breaking of the arc). That might just be my welder. I use .030 flux-core wire (I dunno the brand... just what places like Lowes and Harbor Freight carry), and my machine is a Chicago Electric 220v dual mig welder. Outputs are I believe 30, 55, 85, and 110 amps (or something like that), so its definately not the best out there, which is why I recommend getting a good one if you're going to do it. But yeah I can get pretty good looking welds like yours, but they always end up getting covered in splatter, especially with thicker materials (thicker than say 14gauge. That splatter on the runners where they join to the flange was with the setting on either the 85 or 110 amp setting, so it was obviously hotter than on the lower settings (and there is a definate correlation between output amps and splatter, which I assume is related to the flux gases bubbling out?). However a friend who is a metalworker did say that the reason for my splatter is because of gasless wire. And by fluxcore, we are all talking about only using flux core wire, with NO shielding gas, correct?Originally Posted by JMcDonaldAnd by fluxcore, we are all talking about only using flux core wire, with NO shielding gas, correct?
Reply:Originally Posted by JMcDonaldI have a flux core MIG welder.but only way to get a good looking one (on small parts) is to get one of the higher end welders with push-pull feeders, plus of course using gas rather than flux-core. I absolutely can't wait to be able to do a weld while adding little to no material.
Reply:Well then maybe its just my welder. But like I said if I try to turn the feed down it becomes too inconsistant. Sometimes I have to turn it up to like 2-3 if I need to fill larger gaps or am doing really thin material. Otherwise Im always < 1. *sigh*Maybe Ill just have to play with it some more. Is it common to have wire speeds of like .1-.5 with a range that goes to 11????
Reply:Originally Posted by JMcDonaldWell then maybe its just my welder. But like I said if I try to turn the feed down it becomes too inconsistant. Sometimes I have to turn it up to like 2-3 if I need to fill larger gaps or am doing really thin material. Otherwise Im always < 1. *sigh*Maybe Ill just have to play with it some more. Is it common to have wire speeds of like .1-.5 with a range that goes to 11????
Reply:Follow up:I found out that there were some wires inside my welder that are supposed to be reversed when not using gas, and swapping them made a huge difference. Now, using the same technique, I am having much greater ease laying nicer welds, and getting far less splatter. But I still like O/A welding now  .
Reply:Yup, the polarity setting makes a HUGE difference with wire-feed arc welders.And almost always, the polarity settings for GMAW (MIG) and FCAW (flux-core) are opposite of one another.
Reply:I use my Lincoln 175 for flux core now and I have suprisingly low amounts of spatter now, compared to when I started.Edit:  Saw you solved the problem.
Reply:Im glad you guys convinced me to look into it rather than just accept it! I could still be hating every minute of welding with that thing!