TIG Copper

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Here's a couple of pics of 1/2" copper pipe fusion welds (no filler).  Not as easy as I thought it might be.  Give it a try.http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...er/Copper2.jpghttp://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...er/Copper1.jpgDid these at the house with a "little" Jetline positioner I picked up awhile ago , see pics of this beauty!http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...tlinefront.jpghttp://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...etlineback.jpghttp://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...controller.jpgI'll post the weld settings I used later, forgot to bring them with me today.
Reply:Verry nice welds and wow that's quite the positioner.My Photos on Flickr
Reply:But I dont see plumbers rushing out to get tig machines in the near future however... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:hahaha - nice fusion. man - that positioner was probably some big cake!John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Nice looking welds. Beautiful work.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:Makes me want to re-do all the sprinkler heads in my front yard, all the solder looks tacky. Stack-o-dimes tig welds would increase my property value at least $.50
Reply:nice and uniform!Idealarc 300\300 TIG AC\DC
Reply:Looking good--Graham-Mechanical EngineerAutosport Mechanic/Fabricator
Reply:NICE.. I was thinking to my self that either you are the best welder I've seen or you are an extremely good welder with a positioner to turn that small stuff.Regardless.. nice work.
Reply:very nice work
Reply:Pulser, how many amps to do the copper? and was it just straight argon, or a little helium mix? I heard copper takes heat a little different, and I have done it in the past with O/A. Never tried with the tig.
Reply:Man, that looks good.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:All I did was hold the torch real steady, could have clamped the torch in a fixture.  The positioner rotated the part beneath the torch.  Getting the pulser set to make the weld took some trial and error.  The fit on the pipe and coupler had to be nice and snug, any gap and the couple wants to burn back and not wet to the pipe.Not real certain of the "actual" welding current cause I have this ESAB pulser adapted to a Thermal Arc power supply, and I haven't figured out if I'm getting the amperage that I set.  But here's the settings, for what its worth, take it with a grain of salt, may be ballpark.1/2" copper pipe, 5/8" O.D., 0.040" wall.I-peak = 250 amps, I-background = 30% (75 amps), T-peak = 10%, f = 8 pulses per second, Rotation = 2 rpm (2 ipm).Argon @ 10cfh, small gas lens w/#8 cup, 3/32" 2% Thoriated, 30 degree included angle w/0.020" flat, arc gap tight as possible around 0.030".
Reply:Hey guys, this is my first post.  This was the first subject to catch my eye.  I'm a Union Pipefitter/Welder (stick, tig, and mig).  I've actually tried this Pulser.     I used 7/8'' OD copper and fused pipe to pipe and pipe to fitting.  I didn't have a pulse machine.  I used a Miller Maxstar 150.  It's been a few years ago but I do remember I had to stay on it at about 110 amps for what seems to be about 5-10 seconds before I puddled enough.  Once I puddled I had to go like mad to maintain a uniform weld.  Copper welds funny but it really lays a beautiful weld inside and out.  I cut it out after I welded it and the inside was broke down and as pretty as the outside.
Reply:Ah, an RC car fan.  I have a xxx I put together a few years ago when I broke my ankle.  Wheelied like there was no tommorow.  Hello and welcome.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Originally Posted by DoolittleAh, an RC car fan.  I have a xxx I put together a few years ago when I broke my ankle.  Wheelied like there was no tommorow.  Hello and welcome.
Reply:Yeah Doolittle, if a guy doesn't know that you're talking about a RC Stadium Truck called the Team Losi XXX, they may really wonder about your last comment.   I had a XXXNT which is the nitro version of that.  I now have 2 LST2's and a Muggy.  RC is a very fun hobby!  Sorry Pulser, I'll stay on the subject from here on out.
Reply:Sorry Pulser, I'll stay on the subject from here on out.
Reply:Pulser that is just awesome.  All my positioners are for heavy items - 500 to 17,000#s . I think I am going to try to fit lathe chucks to the smallest 2 . I too am wondering why many pluimbers dont use tig . Seams like you wouldnt ever go back to solder.
Reply:Even if you had an Arc Machines tube welding system (http://www.arcmachines.com/Pages/index2.html), I don't think you would want to actually use this type of weld joint.First, it was not very reliable for consistent fusion because sometimes the coupler did not fit close enough and it would burn back.  Second, the coupler is designed for solder to fill the gap, but with the fusion weld out at the edge, the gap inside is left open to collect debris, corrosion products, etc.  (Although it is similar to a socket weld joint used in steel piping.)The next thing to try is a straight butt weld joint on copper.  Never heard of commercial applications like this with copper, probably because it so easy to solder or silver braze, and not so easy to weld.
Reply:Copper does not like to flow so I set a customer who was making heat exchangers with 15% silver solder and we tig welded it It was some of the best looking and strongest welds. The solder had 65,000 tensile and the silver let it flow it looked like a row of dimes. I have also used everdur orsilicon bronze (98% copper 2% silicon ) with tig and mig to weld copperwith great results
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserHere's a couple of pics of 1/2" copper pipe fusion welds (no filler).  Not as easy as I thought it might be.  Give it a try.http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...er/Copper2.jpghttp://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...er/Copper1.jpgDid these at the house with a "little" Jetline positioner I picked up awhile ago , see pics of this beauty!http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...tlinefront.jpghttp://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...etlineback.jpghttp://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g1...controller.jpgI'll post the weld settings I used later, forgot to bring them with me today.
Reply:Ya know Pulser, if you're not using that machine on a daily basis, you should sell it to me for $100. Okay...okay...I'll give you $150!  John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Thanks for the offer.  Too bad these positioners a so d@mn expensive.Add a couple of zeros, I'll cover the shipping.
Reply:Yes, they are pricey!You will be the first to know if I win the lotto. Deal!John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.comOriginally Posted by pulserAll I did was hold the torch real steady, could have clamped the torch in a fixture.  The positioner rotated the part beneath the torch.  Getting the pulser set to make the weld took some trial and error.  The fit on the pipe and coupler had to be nice and snug, any gap and the couple wants to burn back and not wet to the pipe.Not real certain of the "actual" welding current cause I have this ESAB pulser adapted to a Thermal Arc power supply, and I haven't figured out if I'm getting the amperage that I set.  But here's the settings, for what its worth, take it with a grain of salt, may be ballpark.1/2" copper pipe, 5/8" O.D., 0.040" wall.I-peak = 250 amps, I-background = 30% (75 amps), T-peak = 10%, f = 8 pulses per second, Rotation = 2 rpm (2 ipm).Argon @ 10cfh, small gas lens w/#8 cup, 3/32" 2% Thoriated, 30 degree included angle w/0.020" flat, arc gap tight as possible around 0.030".
Reply:My mistake on the ipm.  5/8" OD at 2 rpm is 3.9 ipm.And on measuring the current you are correct about using a shunt and voltmeter.  You would have to reduce the pulse frequency temporarily in order to have sufficient time to display and read the peak and background values.  I did not have a shunt at the time these welds were done.
Reply:whats a "shunt"?i have the multimeterG
Reply:The explanation below was copied and pasted from this link, it says it better than I could.  http://www.reuk.co.uk/What-is-a-Shunt.htmThere are many shunt links via Google."A shunt (aka a current shunt resistor or an ammeter shunt) is a high precision resistor which can be used to measure the current flowing through a circuit. Using Ohm's Law we know that the voltage dropped across a resistor divided by the resistance of that resistor is equal to the current, therefore if we measure the voltage across a shunt resistor in a circuit, we can easily calculate the current.For example, pictured above is a typical 100 Amp Shunt Resistor. This can be used to measure currents of up to 100 Amps - although to prevent overheating it should really only be used to measure continuous currents of no more than 60-70 Amps.* If a shunt resistor overheats it can permanently change the resistance of the shunt.This shunt is calibrated such that the voltage drop across it is 100mV when the current flowing through it is 100 Amps. Therefore we can calculate the resistance of this shunt to be voltage divided by current = 0.1 / 100 = 0.001 Ohms (typically to within ± 0.25% accuracy). Therefore if a voltage drop of 28mV is measured (using a standard multimeter or 0-100mV range voltmeter), we know that the current flowing is 0.028/0.001 = 28 Amps.(The power wasted by the shunt resistor is given by multiplying the voltage by the current = 0.028 * 28 = 0.78 Watts in this example.)To save making this calculation manually each time it is possible to re-label a 0-100mV moving coil voltmeter so it instead reads 0-100 Amps. This would be achieved simply by sticking the word "Amps" over "mV" on the face of the meter which would now be an ammeter rather than a voltmeter."
Reply:Thanxs for the explanation.I remember trying to get an amp reading from my "amp clamp" (terminology??) on one of my welding leads, but it didnt work....i was disappointed...thought id just worked out how to calibrate EVERYTHING.seems i needed a shunt...or i could just add more amps if it feels cold and turn it down when i blow through or get too hot.getting a shunt seems more fun!G
Reply:back to the OPI tried many times to tig @ 26 gauge copper sheet (thin)and i'm all done with that.soldering was quicker and stronger and less fustrating.even tried it in AC, which wasnt a complete disaster.just made more noisethe thin stuff also got burn back if it wasnt tight.reason i tried AC was that i saw a "skin" on the puddle..blob...whatever.thought the cleaning in AC might help.I even tried a 1/8 tung and DCEP to see if it would "clean the puddle up",but that just got me some pratice on sharpening 1/8" tungsi suppose i should try some thicker copper or tigging silver solder before i hang them up.G
Reply:Someone tell me more about welding copper with a mig. I used to braze years ago but now have a mig. Have only used the mig with steel. Is it as simple as  getting a copper/bronze wire?Would like to do some thigns with copper.Thanks,Artwelder
Reply:Very nice job,good consistency. Sometimes it's hard to get the right combination of everything for a good consistency. But once you get it you know it. Dan  microfusionwelding.com
Reply:Using an Aerowave?Last edited by microfusionwelding; 07-22-2009 at 10:29 PM.
Reply:Slick positioner!
Reply:Originally Posted by artwelderSomeone tell me more about welding copper with a mig. I used to braze years ago but now have a mig. Have only used the mig with steel. Is it as simple as  getting a copper/bronze wire?Would like to do some thigns with copper.Thanks,Artwelder