First time welder question.

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Id like to start out by saying I know NOTING about welding except that I just bought a Forney C-5 220vlt Stick welder. Does anyone know anything about these? Also is this a good welder to start out on? Im going to be trying to weld a fuel cell for a rock crawler Im making and its going to be made out of 1/8th aluminum sheets. Is this a good welder for this or should I get a whole new setup? I will also be trying to weld 1/4" steel brackets on the frame and axles of the crawler, is this welder also a good one for this? I only bought the welder because it was 50bucks and it still seems to work fine. Also any help u can give me on techniques and tricks would be incredibly helpfull. Like I said I just started and I just learned what a groud is.... Yeah im that new. Thanks you guys.
Reply:Oh boy, you may be in for some criticism. I'll just tell you, your best bet is to get some formal training covering welding. Other guys and gals will explain everything far better but I'll start by saying there are definitely better options to weld aluminum ie tig or mig/ spool gun. Your going to be looking at far more than 50 bucks for a better machine. And a fuel tank is proably not the best project to use an iffy method with very limited welding knowledge. The steel bits are probably doable, there again, you need more time behind the hood to start building things for stuff that moves. Either way, I wish you the best and the safest-marc.
Reply:Originally Posted by fronty_78Oh boy, you may be in for some criticism. I'll just tell you, your best bet is to get some formal training covering welding. Other guys and gals will explain everything far better but I'll start by saying there are definitely better options to weld aluminum ie tig or mig/ spool gun. Your going to be looking at far more than 50 bucks for a better machine. And a fuel tank is proably not the best project to use an iffy method with very limited welding knowledge. The steel bits are probably doable, there again, you need more time behind the hood to start building things for stuff that moves. Either way, I wish you the best and the safest-marc.
Reply:I can see it now a ball of fire and a lot of broken welds!www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:This is a potentially dangerous activity, both in welding production, and in the use of welded components. We try to watch out for safety concerns, and no doubt your project interests raise several concerns.You have a Shielded Metal Arc Welding machine to be very accurate. It is commonly called a "Stick Machine", and sometimes just "Arc Welder". The term you just learned "ground", we call that the "Work Lead", it is attached to the "Work Piece". The other cable is connected to the "Stinger" which grips a welding "rod", or "stick". There are three possible polarities produced by any "Stick Machine". These are "Electrode Positive", "Electrode Negative", and "Alternating Current". Forney is a huge name in welding, and your machine should function well. You need to know which polarity is appropriate for the type of rod you intend to burn, and whether your machine will produce the needed polarity. In reality, welding takes a very long time in practice for a person to become proficient. Your intended projects are only for professional quality weldors, you must have patience, if only to understand the skill needed to build those components. If you need these projects sooner, please hire a professional welding shop.Last edited by tanglediver; 07-10-2011 at 08:42 PM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Note that welding on vehicle frames is a bad idea in general, especially if you have absolutly no clue what you are doing. At best chances are high you'll ruin a good frame, at worst the posibility is high it will fail and injure/kill someone. Theres a reason bolts are usually used to attach things to frames. Same goes with the axle. To do any of this right you will need a lot more info than you can just pick up on the internet.The machine is definately the wrong one for building a fuel cell out of alum. Understand alum is generally considdered much harder to weld than steel and requires specialized equipment, especially if you are doing seal tight welds. Again this is a bad project for someone who knows nothing about welding.Keep this in mind. F'ing up a dedicated offroad vehicle is one thing. Doing any of these mods to a dual use or daily driver is just plain stupid especially with no knolege or just the info you pick up on line. People can die from your mistakes and arrogance. If you want to learn to weld, do yourself a favor and look into a night class at a local votech school. When you add up what you get forthe money, a class is stupid cheap. Even then don't expect to be able to rush out and do more than a bumper or rocksliders at best. It takes a lot of hood time to even begin to learn part of what you need to know to do any of this stuff..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverThis is a potentially dangerous activity, both in welding production, and in the use of welded components. We try to watch out for safety concerns, and no doubt your project interests raise several concerns.You have a Shielded Metal Arc Welding machine to be very accurate. It is commonly called a "Stick Machine", and sometimes just "Arc Welder". The term you just learned "ground", we call that the "Work Lead", it is attached to the "Work Piece". The other cable is connected to the "Stinger" which grips a welding "rod", or "stick". There are three possible polarities produced by any "Stick Machine". These are "Electrode Positive", "Electrode Negative", and "Alternating Current". Forney is a huge name in welding, and your machine should function well. You need to know which polarity is appropriate for the type of rod you intend to burn, and whether your machine will produce the needed polarity. In reality, welding takes a very long time in practice for a person to become proficient. Your intended projects are only for professional quality weldors, you must have patience, if only to understand the skill needed to build those components. If you need this projects sooner, please hire a professional welding shop.
Reply:And dont worry with the amount of concern u guys seem to have with what Ive said so far Im convinced not to try this as my first project.
Reply:On the contrary, aluminum does not behave anything like steel. If I had skill to work aluminum, and a high quality tig machine, and solid experience at building fuel cells, and a qualified means of testing the cell, then I might consider making your fuel cell. No stick machine will cut it, you need that fuel cell tig welded, or "Gas Tungsten Arc Welded", to be very accurate.Paying for the job is way, way, way cheaper than learning to do the work yourself. Last edited by tanglediver; 07-10-2011 at 09:10 PM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverPaying for the job is way, way, way cheaper than learning to do the work yourself.
Reply:dude if theres a way to take this post off then i would do it. they dont exactly like us rookie welders buildng things that could potentially be dangerous (speaking from experiacne)and on top of that dont tell them you have bare minimum welding time under the belt because that makes it worse. and i took there advice and not building what i was going to build
Reply:Originally Posted by jpmillerdude if theres a way to take this post off then i would do it. they dont exactly like us rookie welders buildng things that could potentially be dangerous (speaking from experiacne)and on top of that dont tell them you have bare minimum welding time under the belt because that makes it worse. and i took there advice and not building what i was going to build
Reply:Originally Posted by EzalycasaidAnd dont worry with the amount of concern u guys seem to have with what Ive said so far Im convinced not to try this as my first project.
Reply:Thought u guys might wanna see my progress and see how my welds came out. Let me know what u guys think. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW Theres a reason bolts are usually used to attach things to frames.
Reply:So what  machine and settings did you end up using? It's certainly not stick.The welds on the tube at the axle are cold. The toes are not tied in well at all. It also doesn't look like you got your start / stops tied in well either. The weld on what I assume is a brace at the top looks cold and ugly also. I hope that "brace" doesn't apply a lot of force to the rear on your tube, or those welds will most likely peel right off the axle. The welds on the upper bracket top and bottom look cold and poorly tied in as well. I'm also not sure engineering wise how effective that whole setup will be not seeing the entire thing. The brace on the top of the tube part doesn't look well engineered from a basic physics standpoint from what little I can see.I'm guessing that last one is a weld to the frame. Not the best idea since many newer frames are heat treated high tensile steel and take special procedures to do correctly.  Chances are the filler is wrong and you skipped a lot of important things if this is a high tensile or heat treated frame. The fab wise the edges are rough and you burned thru on one edge. All of those are points where cracks will start, especially the right side start point where the bracket changes direction and the poor weld starts at the same place. In general starting welds on a corner are a poor idea. The weld itself as a number of issues. It's a bit cold at the start, and the last 2/3rds looks rushed. It also looks like you welded over a previous weld. Looking at the ones you did on the axle and tube from the previous picts, makes me wonder if you ran a 2nd bead because the 1st one looked like cr@p. I don't see any evidence you ground out the 1st weld however. If you simply laid a 2nd bead over the 1st and the 1st was cold, chances are the whole thing is only as good as the 1st cr@ppy weld that didn't tie into the base material well. There's also evidence of either undercut from a previous weld on the frame just to the left of that weld or  more likely, where you gouged into the frame cutting off old brackets. The damaged area is quite large and the one closest to the weld looks like it goes in probably at least 1/2 the depth of the frame material. Another crack point and more weak spots in the frame now.This is really the wrong sorts of projects to "learn" on. I hope this is strictly for off road use. You have a long way to go before your welds are up to the quality you need even for off road only projects like this.Over all to be blunt, the welds suck.Last edited by DSW; 08-11-2011 at 12:11 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverThis is a potentially dangerous activity, both in welding production, and in the use of welded components. We try to watch out for safety concerns, and no doubt your project interests raise several concerns.You have a Shielded Metal Arc Welding machine to be very accurate. It is commonly called a "Stick Machine", and sometimes just "Arc Welder". The term you just learned "ground", we call that the "Work Lead", it is attached to the "Work Piece". The other cable is connected to the "Stinger" which grips a welding "rod", or "stick". There are three possible polarities produced by any "Stick Machine". These are "Electrode Positive", "Electrode Negative", and "Alternating Current". Forney is a huge name in welding, and your machine should function well. You need to know which polarity is appropriate for the type of rod you intend to burn, and whether your machine will produce the needed polarity. In reality, welding takes a very long time in practice for a person to become proficient. Your intended projects are only for professional quality weldors, you must have patience, if only to understand the skill needed to build those components. If you need these projects sooner, please hire a professional welding shop.
Reply:One more thing Ezalycasaid. Try using a sanding disk or flap wheel to clean up the metal before welding instead of a grinding wheel, and it will cause less stress raisers by making deep gouges in the surface of the metal.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Donald, for those of us who need to go get those for prep.... you probably have favorite brands/ grits / diameter of wheels /  etc ?  Probably a thread somewhere..but interested in your preferences since you mentioned it... Thanks,GBMWeldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:when welding on automotive apps make sure u put the work lead as close to the weld as possible.  if u put it futher away the current will melt seals between the electrode and work lead and can actually weld bearings etc together if they are between the work and electrode leads.  I hope u have decided to get the fuel cell professionally made or buy one pre fabbed.  there are plenty of choices out there...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:nice looking
Reply:hate to be harsh,but practice,practice,practice,fab after you practice,practice,practice.
Reply:Thank you guys for all the info and help on my welds. Im sure one or two of u were wondering if I ever used the jeep. I beat the HELL out of this thing and nothings budged so far. Droped it off a 5 foot wall, bumped up a couple 3 foot ledges, slammed my control arms and shock mounts HARD on rocks/ledges. Drove it down bumpy roads doing about 40mph. Nothings budged or even begun to bend or twist. So Im still alive and everything seems to be pretty strong. The fastest Its gone is about 60mph on the highway and everything went fine. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by Jimmy_popnice looking
Reply:Im about as new as it gets when it comes to welding and even I could tell those welds are bad....Ive been lurking here for some time now and just trying to learn.  Lots of great info and advice.  Also alot of knowledgeable and experienced welders who do this for a living.I find it strange how I keep coming across posts about some guy who is new to welding, but wants to do framework.  After the experienced welder tells poster that it is not a good idea for many reasons, the poster ignores the advice and does it anyways.Why come here looking for guidance from those who know alot more than you, then ignore sound advice?I just hope those welds dont fail when you are going down the highway at 60 with passengers...This thread just confirms that.....There's a damn fool born every minute.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:failures in weld rarely happen right away. it's the repeated cycles that kill welds. If it failed right away, it wasn't welded, it just looked like it was welded.Too many rookies come to this site with the "if you can do it, I can do it" mentality. Welding is an art form. Just because you know how to make a paint brush work doesn't mean you can paint like davinci, or rembrant. Also, Just because you "beat the hell out of it"  and nothing moved means nothing. Like I said before, it's repeated cycles that kill welds. They crack over time, or in one catistrophic failure after the material has been put through it's paces. weld location, improper starts and stops, undercutting, travel speed, arch length, amperage, filler size, filler composition, gas mixture, site prep, body position, electrode/gun angle, etc. all come into play to determine how good a weld is. in addition, just because the weld holds, doesn't mean the materail that is welded will be able to withstand the load, or the added stress risers that a weld causes.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I'm fairly new to welding and the first two things I learned was that I should be humble about my welding knowledge and I should know my limitations. There is always something I don't know and always something new I can learn. I'm pretty happy with the progress I've made since the first time I ever switched on a welder but there is no way in hell I would ever attempt to weld something like that myself. You should listen to the professionals on this website, they are a mountain of knowledge and things like this should have been left to the professionals.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:I see a silicon 'islands' on the bead.  Exactly how'd you connect the mig gun to your Forney stick welder?Smells of bull****.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:Originally Posted by AndyAI see a silicon 'islands' on the bead.  Exactly how'd you connect the mig gun to your Forney stick welder?Smells of bull****.
Reply:Well you've come to the right place
Reply:Ok I got a certified welding shop to make a second pass along both ends of the truss were it meets the axle tube. They had the same exact welder i used A 230V ESAB 289 MIGMaster welder. Same setting I used wich was on 10 out of 12. 75/25 mixture, not sure what gas was in the mixture. Now the entire weld is about the size of a quarter all the way along the axle tube.  My previous post wasnt to go against what yall said it was just to show that it did hold but i do appreciate all ur concern and I did as all of u suggested and got it rewelded. All of my welds are now inspected and repaired by a proffesional welding shop. Thanks for all the advice and input.Last edited by Ezalycasaid; 11-14-2011 at 12:59 AM.
Reply:It may not be concern for you... but the poor bastard next to you on the highway when it were to break loose :-/JoeMiller 140 Autoset (2010)Miller Syncrowave 250 (1996)
Reply:In case you haven't figured it out yet "the guys" have some very strong issues with newby welders doing anything on autos and trailers. The biggest reason is that while learning you are making some crappy looking and weak welds. If other peoples safety is at stake, it is wrong to expose them without their knowledge. Welding on suspension components can do that. Now most folks get into welding because they have a reason (or project) in mind and while that is great just make sure that what you are doing can not kill anyone else. Ask yourself this question will I be asked about "this" at the inquest (investigation after someone has been killed)?Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.