Another which MIG to get thread.

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I am in the market for a MIG machine and obviously have some questions. I am interested in the blue or red machines, I don't want cheap stuff with potential problems. I would be using it to weld everything from body panels (sheet metal), exhausts, up to 1/4" on trailers and whatnot. I have the occasional thick stuff to weld which I don't mind making more than one or two passes on. I would also like to be able to weld aluminum up to 1/4" as well.Now I have been looking at the 180-210 machines but have some concerns. From what I read lots of you say these machines are to small for real work and are useless to try and weld aluminum with. But at the same time I see people say the bigger (industrial) machines like the 220's and up are harder to weld sheet metal with. I see in the brochure for both manufacturers that they say every machine (small hobby up to bigger industrial) will weld down to 20-22 gauge just fine.Another question is the size of the guns on both machines, are the bigger industrial guns to bulky for lighter work? Do the guns get hot like tig torches after welding for awhile?Lastly, consumables, insight, tips, recommendations. I have read some people don't like the miller guns because of the tips they use? Is one manufacturer better then the other as far as consumables holding up, ease of changing, working like they should, price?Thanks for any input!
Reply:Lincoln, Miller, ESAB...cant go wrong with any of those. Tweco will make a gun for any of those units. I have have nothing but good from Tweco in all my years of using those guns, electrode holders, ect...I would recommend a unit not less than 180 amps whichever brand you choose. JMO but you can always turn down for thin. Buy the biggest you can afford.A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:You will need to look at the duty cycle on the machines, because in the 180-210 amp range you will find both the heavier "hobby" machines, as well as the light industrial units designed for more commercial applications. Example: Millers MM211 vs the MM212. On 230v the MM211 is rated at 150 amps 30% vs the MM212's 160 amps at 60% ( I'll ignore the 110v capability for this discussion) That means you have more top end duty cycle from the MM212 obviously. Same would apply to the MM180 and say an older MM185. The MM185 would have a much higher duty cycle than the smaller MM180 would.You'll have better luck on the bottom end and thin stuff with a infinitely adjustable machine vs a tapped machine. I've done sheet that thin with my MM185 and .023 wire and gas, but it's still not easy. The ability to crank down the volts like I can on the XMT's would help greatly.As far as gun size, most larger machines will accept the smaller mig guns if you wanted to use one, at least the Millers will. The M10 gun that's common on the smaller migs will plug right in in place of my big 300 amp tweeco gun on my Super S32P feeder. Right now I've got the small gun on the feeder and the bigger gun on the MM185 simply because I'm more comfortable with the Tweeco and am currently using the MM185 more than the suitcase, and running the machine at the upper end of it's output for my current projects. If you went with a 250 class machine, I'd bet you'd have no issue finding a cheap M10 gun on ebay if you really wanted the lighter weight gun for maneuverability. The M10 gun is nicer for quickly moving in and out doing tubing for example..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Yes the duty cycle was another thing I read about in the brochures. The 60% over the 30% is a pretty big difference. I was just more worried that the bigger machine (like I've seen mentioned) would be much harder if not impossible to weld the thin stuff with. If the infinite adjustable machines can weld thin stuff the bigger one would be the one for me. The duty cycle alone is a huge deal to me. I have no problem buying extra guns and wire, I just don't have the room for extra machines taking up floor space.
Reply:Put some little wire in a big machine and you'll do fine for thin stuff.  I think people's problems doing thin stuff with the larger machines comes from trying to use the .035 or .045 stuff they've got in it.My name's not Jim....
Reply:I can weld in body panels with the suitcase off my Trailblazer with .030 wire. I also have a cheapo Lincoln HD special 110 MIG that I use for small piddly little jobs like exhaust pipes, rusted out floors, railings, and lawnmowers. I don't want to sound like a di@k but one welding machine does not fit all. Just remember, you can always turn a big machine down, but good luck turning a smaller machine up. I say go for the biggest machine you can afford and not worry about out growing it.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:I've always used my MM175 for the thin stuff. Once I go over 1/4" the thunderbolt AC/DC comes into play. The 175 has never kicked out due to duty cycle.                                 MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:all have valid points. i like the m10 gun on my mm175 for it's size when welding in tight spots. my mm252 with the right size wire is more versatile than the 175 in that it has higher duty cycle and more amps and will do anything the 175 will do. plus with the 30A spool gun it has no problem with aluminum or steel at a longer distance from the machine. if i had to make a choice and only keep one of the machines the 252 would stay for the reasons above. as said more is better and guns can changed if money is not an issue. like said also look at red blue and yellow but i would also not overlook Thermal Arc' latest entries. i just reread your post and in it you say you want to be able to do 1/4" aluminum. for that you should get the 250 class machine with spool gun.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:I just sold my thunderbolt because I haven't used it once in the last 5 years. I use my lincoln 175 when I want to stick which isn't often.Tozzy, the turn a big machine down but can't turn a small machine up is a very good point and my thoughts as well. From the sounds of it the bigger machines will do the small work just fine with the right tools. Any recommendations for what machines are the "good ones" to watch for?
Reply:I kicked them thermal on my mm175 many times even on 11ga when you starts welding on big projects. Now with the 252 I can tack every thing up and weld it all. If you want to do aluminum youll want easy spool gun hook up or else be able to hook up push pull gun. I have turned the 252 down to weld 14 or 16 ga with now probsMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:i thought i already did. mm252 with 30a spool gun new or used, or a mm251 with 30a used.hey Farmshop. i was able to do repairs on a portable computer desk with the 252 on 20ga with .030 a while back.(had no .023) it taxed the heck out of my abilities but it turned out not the best but pretty good. my 300lb cousin is still leaning on it and it hasn't broken yet lol.Last edited by jbmprods; 11-27-2011 at 07:42 PM.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:If you've got the funds and are looking for an excellent 250+ amp class mig, I would think about an XMT 304 and a feeder. True you'd have to add a module to run the spoolgun, but a nice used XMT will run you a bit less than a 250 amp class mig new. Usually I see them in the $1500-1800 range depending on what feeder they have. 250 class migs seem a bit harder to locate used. It's also an excellent DC tig and stick machine as well. I'll probably end up upgrading to the XMT rather than a stand alone 250 class mig, even though I don't need the DC tig or stick capability with my Syncrowave..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Sorry sometimes I read through things too fast and stuff gets muttled in my head.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:I'm pretty happy with my MM200.  These old machines come up all the time and are built like tanks.  The machines were designated differently then.  My machine has a 60% duty cycle at 200 amps and I believe goes up to 280.  Any repairs on the machine are fairly cheap and easy because there are very limited amounts of electronics in them.  The only downside is that they're heavy and taped machines, so your ability to dial in on sheet metal may be limited.  I got mine on eBay for $299 including the spot panel and a Spoolmatic 1.  I spent around $60 for PPG paint and I got an awesome machine.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=60628TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIf you've got the funds and are looking for an excellent 250+ amp class mig, I would think about an XMT 304 and a feeder. True you'd have to add a module to run the spoolgun, but a nice used XMT will run you a bit less than a 250 amp class mig new. Usually I see them in the $1500-1800 range depending on what feeder they have. 250 class migs seem a bit harder to locate used. It's also an excellent DC tig and stick machine as well. I'll probably end up upgrading to the XMT rather than a stand alone 250 class mig, even though I don't need the DC tig or stick capability with my Syncrowave.