Pulsed Spray out of position

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Today I had some more fun with my new toy. I got the factory advanced panel for my invertec V350 pro. I cut up a bunch of 3/8 X 6" 2 or 3" strips and pulsed spray Migged them.  Wire speed was 200 ipm .035 ER770S-6  AG/8.I had the machine set at about 275 ipm to get a good quiet arc.  If it crackles, you have to turn it up until it stops.  Too far and you get a real long arc.  Once its dialed in, what a blast!  I still have not figured out the arc control knob.  I know how it works but I can't quite see what it does for the weld.  It seems if I turn it all the way down, I get undercutting.  I keep trying different settings.  I even put it on aluminum pulse on pulse.  Today it was on +5.Here is the  vertical up.  Gives me a woody!StringerStringerStringerTriangle weaveTriangle weaveLast edited by David R; 12-15-2007 at 05:22 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Now for some overhead  Same settings.A little forehand makes a flatter bead overhead.  4 stringers. True spray transfer.  The wire never touches the work or puddle.  If it does, it needs to be turned up more for a longer arc.  The frequency goes up as the power goes up.  Welding over head its like spray painting.Not too good at painting. Last edited by David R; 12-15-2007 at 06:38 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Looks like you will need a little more fine tuning for the over head. A little less wire and a little more background voltage?
Reply:The big knob is for arc length.  It is set to match the wire speed in ipm.  I start with it about 10% higher, the small arc control knob increases the frequency and lowers the background current.  I have only had this machine a day.  Those are the only two adjustments.  I also welded a piece of exhaust pipe in pulsed spray mode.  It worked pretty good.  I tried to cut it to see full penetration, but broke the blade on my band saw.  Pic in a little while.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I maybe shouldn,t be offering suggestions any how, my pulse machine is an almost 40 year old PA-3A Airco and I only use it for Alum.
Reply:Perhaps you could splain to me what increasing intensity and decreasing background voltage.  How this affects the arc or bead.When I welded the exhaust pipe, If the arc control or wave control knob as lincoln calls it, if it was to the right, it would burn through so I turned it all the way to the left.  I set the welder as low as it would go.  I think 65 ipm for .030 wire.Thanks David Last edited by David R; 12-15-2007 at 06:37 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Here is the exhaust pipe done in true pulsed spray.First Lapp weldThen a butt weld.  I just cut the pipe almost through and pushed it together.  A perfect fitup.  I also wire wheeled the coating off it.Butt weld.InsideThis is what I got with the wave control on +5.I tried to go up, but too hot.Welder set as low as it would go, .030 wire about 60 ipm, AG/8.Tomorrow I am going to try out 98/2 and some pure Co2.  The Lincoln STT will weld pulsed spray with Co2, I hope this one will too.  I have some 1/2" plate to mess with too.David DavidLast edited by David R; 12-15-2007 at 08:00 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Here I set the machine to pulse on pulse for aluminum.  I turned the dial till I got a decent arc.  Looking for that stack O dimes.  This is with carbon steel wire and plate.Same thingThis was messing with the wave control knob.  The one on the left is wave control on -10 middle bead is 0 and right bead is +10.  I can't tell the differenceI wanted to see if for hand or back hand made a difference.  Gun was tilted to the right for the whole U bead.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:That looks like it is going to work out very nicely for you. The uphill weave is really good looking, profile of the weld, and the consistency of the bead overlap is great!And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:I'm a firm believer in the Invertec V-350 Pro....I had the opprotunity to use one coupled with an LN-25 for almost two years, before that, I used a V-350 Pro with an LF-72.  Both were factory models, and I was always curious about the advanced process model.Now, I understand that this is your first day after installing the panel, and you are just playing, but from what I am reading, the Advanced Process panel on the Invertec seems WAY different that what I used to do with the PowerMig 300 and PowerMig 350MP.  When the Lincoln reps trained me on those units, I adjusted the wire feed speed I wanted, the welder adjusted the voltage to a predetermined level, and I used the "Voltage Knob" to adjust the TRIM.  Trim defined as the frequency of the arc cycle.  Darn thing didn't sizzle at all.....Buzzed like a swarm of Bumble Bees.....Adjusting the trim changed the pitch of the buzzing.  Higher with greater frequency, Lower with lesser frequency - same as an engine.We used the PowerMigs to GMAW-P metal core wire onto gauge metal for hopper bottom grain bins and storage silos.  Worked really well, once you convinced guys that they could use metal core on gauge metal.You've got me curious now....I'll keep an eye on this thread.Later,Jason
Reply:Jason, I have never used the power mig.  Been using the V350 for about a year now and I love it.  Puttig in the new panel made it a totally new beast.I guess my point was there is not much for adjustment.  It just welds.  Set the wire speed on the feeder and machine.  Fine tune the arc length with the Voltage knob or the "Big" knob.  Fine tune the arc with the wave control that I still don't have figured out.Yes, it sounds like a swarm of bees.  The longer I hold the arc, the slower it pulses.  Real short arc and it pulses faster.  Same with the main adjustment.  The more I turn it up, the faster it pulses.  Using .035 on 700 ipm and the machine turned all the way up (set for .035 wire)  It really buzzes.   Sure makes a nice bead and FAST.  It goes about 1/2 way into the 3/8" plate.  I can see the force of the arc.  This is a whole new process for me.  Like I bought a new machine.It also has a "CP" or Constant power mode.  In Short arc, it has #s .1 to 15.  These are supposed to be Kilowatts.  I put it on .1 and did some short arc on the exhaust pipe using .030 wire.  I could weld the pipe, but the wire was a little big.  Turn up the wire and the KW and it just welds.  Today because of time and some other stuff, I am going to work to mess with the 1/2" plate.   See what this thing will really do.  I turned the gas all the way down to 10 cfh and it still welded with no porosity.  This is a big savings for me.  Gonna try Co2 today too and see if it will even weld with it.I cooked a heavy duty gas cone so I switched to the 2 piece extra heavy duty and have had no more problems.Take a look at the last posts in 80 pieces thread.  It shows what I did the first day I had it.  I welded 40 of those flanges in 2 hours.  That is when I cooked the nozzel.  When I pulled the trigger, smoke came out of the gun because it was so hot.  Right now I am only using a 200 amp Lincoln gun.  I have a 300 Lincoln, 400 "bernard style" and a true 500 amp bernard gun that I hope to never use.  The manual says you will need a bigger gun because of the heat.  It seems the heat is all in the work and front of the gun.  I have a demand meter that shows peak KW used.  So far I have not used as much power as my Hypertherm 600 uses on full power with my 5 hp air compressor running.The manual says it won't work with an LN-25 in pulse mode, but it worked fine for me.  That is what I used to do the exhaust pipe.If anyone wanst specific experments, ask away.All I have left for today is. 045 wire, but I have about 50 lbs.Thanks for the compliments Rojodiablo  DavidLast edited by David R; 12-16-2007 at 07:35 AM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I am so gonna have to buy one now, did you get that foot of snow over night. We got the tail end of it.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Thanks for the response David.Lincoln doesn't advertise or promote the LN-25 for GMAW-P, that is one of the reasons I am seriously considering the LN-25Pro.  It has the same MaxTrac drive system as on the LF-72 & 74, and all the PowerMigs. I also like the two step trigger interlock, and built in flowmeter, in addition to the cold feed and gas purge already found on the LN-25.  Hey, if the LN-25 works on Pulse, go for it.  Wouldn't be the first time that any manufacturer undersold a machine, or downplayed some of it's weaker abilities.Is your LN-25 Voltage Sensing or Control Cable???  I have not read up much on the specific operating procedures of the Advanced Process Panel, but I am willing to wager a guess that when you engage the software, the Voltage control on the V-350 Pro switches to the Trim feature (same as the PowerMigs) and causes the changes that you described.  I would also suggest that you are not experiencing the true adjustability of the system if you are usig a voltage sensing wire feeder vs a standard cable wire feeder.  If the V-350 cannot "see" the wire feed speed, then it cannot adjust to the predetermined optimum Voltage, and will run in default mode.I did notice that your beads were fairly narrow & quite high (again, no worries for your first day) and I know that (with the PowerMigs anyway) we had a HUGE range of adjustability on the Pulse feature to alter both the bead profile, and size of HAZ.  That is how we dialed the machines in to allow us to weld 8' - 10' of continuous welds on unsupported gauge metal, and to minimize the warpage.I am sure when you figure everything out, you will be quite pleased with your upgrade.Keep us informed.Later,Jason
Reply:I did some playing today.  #1 it won't Spray pulse mig with Co2.  I didn't think it would, but HAD to try.#2 The Wave control knob works like you would expect.  Turn it up and the arc gets narrower.  Turn it  Down and it swider, less forceful and could tend to wander.  Just like an arc force knob.  It does make a difference.  I did a couple more vertical ups on 1/2" plate.  One on -5 arc force and one on +5.  The - 5 was a more fluid puddle, but harder to control.#3 not much difference in 98/2 or 92/8.  The 98/2 could have an arc cone the same size as the wire on +10 wave control.   The Both gases work with the same settings.#4  I think I maxed it out.   .045 wire at 400 ipm which should be around 400 amps  I kept turning the big knob up, but the arc didn't get any longer.I will have pics later tonight.  2 passes on 1/2" plate vertical up.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I think Black Wolf is right about never getting the full benefit ofthe machine using a voltage sensing feeder. When I tried out a 350p the deal killer was having to buy the Python or the miller gun so there could be communication to the machine. Hard to justify another $2000.00 when I already had 2 XR 30 s.
Reply:The way I understand it, the power source knows the voltage at the arc or time of the arc and all points in between.  I have an LN9-GMA that is cable powered.  I bought that wire feeder for $128 from Ebone and a new cable for $159.  The LN9-GMA is in the "dumb feeder" mode. It just feeds the wire what ever speed its set at. It has "governor" and a speed sensor on the drive gear so it does feed at the speed it is set to.  The acceleraton is still adjustable. It seems to work the same on either feeder in pulsed mig mode or Constan Power mode.The LN9 is a voltage sensing feeder, but will not work with the V350. Even a after a few calls to lincoln.  Its in "Bypass" mode, so it works like an LN-7.Sorry about the pics, but They won't be posted till tomorrow  I have other things going on tonight.I have a vertical up weave wider than a quarter.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:This is a vertical up, 250 ipm second pass. Pulsed spray.  1/2" plateHere is a 3/8 fillet in pulsed spray mode using the triangle weave.Here are a couple of beads in CP mode.  Constant power.  (short arc)Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Could you show us a pic of the advanced panel? Welds look amazing!My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:Today I was kinda busy.  I did plug the machine into a 60 amp circuit and turned the wire  (.045) up to 525 ipm.  I had the machine on 600 ipm.....Turned all the way up.  It welded like crazy.  The arc was below the puddle about level with the surface of the plate.  It pushed the molten steel away from the arc.  The arc went deep into the 1/2" plate I was messing with.  I ran it one more time and looked at the meters.  They said 385 amps 32.5 volts.  Nuff!  I went to the LWS and picked up 2 33 lb rolls of wire, .030 and .035. Another pic of the actual panel.David Attached ImagesLast edited by David R; 12-17-2007 at 08:13 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:That was just cruel David......I really miss working with an Invertec.   we get to play with the new welding budget in January. I wonder if......Later,Jason
Reply:Nice work! On my Miller 350P I even tried pulsing flux core. It took some tuning but I got it set and it workes great. It seems to penitrat well and leaves a decent beed. The best part was how easy the out of position welding is. Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B
Reply:David here is one example of spray on a practice coupon for  AWS D1.1  4G Looks  kind of like one of your pulse pics ....thought it was cool so I shared it... I really want that pulse option  Last edited by lewray; 12-18-2007 at 12:01 AM. weld it like you own it
Reply:offrdfun73,  it has a program for metal core which I have never used, but no pulse for self shielded.  Sunday I tried again to get it to weld carbon steel on pulse on pulse.  I guess it only works on aluminum.  Can't wait till I get the hook up for my spool gun.I am taking the piece I posted in the first pics to my LWS to show them how well it works.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Mine does have a program for metal core and that is what I used for self sheild and it worked great. The penutration was good and the spatter was greatly reduced not eliminated (darn). I just played with is and got the arc length and width were it looked the best and away I went. I just got my relacement liner in today so I can run a roll of 1/16" flux core that was shiped by accadent. I will take some pics the next time I have it out. I got about 300 feet of alum fence and 4 alum gates to build first. Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B
Reply:In your book you got with the machine there is a general guide for settings and wire types and sizes. You have VOLTAGE, AMPERAGE AND WIRE SPEED.The general guide in the book OR on the machine in some cases is very good for getting started.But more specifically welding up hill with wire feed on structural weldments is not recommended for long welds.American Welding Society reports that weldments welded (GMAW) down hill showed cracking because the welding was so fast that preheat was insufficient(steel boat hulls,tanks)The spray transfer happens at higher settings. The molten metal makes multiple droplets.It is called  short arc at the lower settings.The wire comes out of the gun, hits the surface, and burns back, then advances and does it again. It does this 200 times per second.Spray transfer is used on heavier sections.welding up hill with wire feed on structural weldments is not recommended down hill showed cracking because the welding was so fast that preheat was insufficientYou are contradicting your self. In the pulse mode you have the ability to weld up hill or down depending on a lot of things. You have the arc controll neede to do this. Pulse was desined for thinner metals high amp to penitrate low amp so solidify. The pulsing on machines vary. Mine from 200 to 5000 depending on the program this info came frome Miller at there trade show in Atlant this spring. By the guys who build and design welders. Steel Thunder Welding LLC. St. Thomas VI USAMM350PBOBCAT 3MAXSTAR 150 STH375 EXTREME PLASMA6.5 HP COMPRESORDEWALT 18, 24, AND 36 VOLTO/A TORCH SETAND SO MUCH MORE I DONT REMEMBERALL IN MY 2005 2500HD EXTENDED CAB L/B
Reply:Originally Posted by offrdfun73welding up hill with wire feed on structural weldments is not recommended down hill showed cracking because the welding was so fast that preheat was insufficientYou are contradicting your self. In the pulse mode you have the ability to weld up hill or down depending on a lot of things. You have the arc controll neede to do this. Pulse was desined for thinner metals high amp to penitrate low amp so solidify. The pulsing on machines vary. Mine from 200 to 5000 depending on the program this info came frome Miller at there trade show in Atlant this spring. By the guys who build and design welders.
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfI'm a firm believer in the Invertec V-350 Pro....I had the opprotunity to use one coupled with an LN-25 for almost two years, before that, I used a V-350 Pro with an LF-72.  Both were factory models, and I was always curious about the advanced process model.Now, I understand that this is your first day after installing the panel, and you are just playing, but from what I am reading, the Advanced Process panel on the Invertec seems WAY different that what I used to do with the PowerMig 300 and PowerMig 350MP.  When the Lincoln reps trained me on those units, I adjusted the wire feed speed I wanted, the welder adjusted the voltage to a predetermined level, and I used the "Voltage Knob" to adjust the TRIM.  Trim defined as the frequency of the arc cycle.  Darn thing didn't sizzle at all.....Buzzed like a swarm of Bumble Bees.....Adjusting the trim changed the pitch of the buzzing.  Higher with greater frequency, Lower with lesser frequency - same as an engine.We used the PowerMigs to GMAW-P metal core wire onto gauge metal for hopper bottom grain bins and storage silos.  Worked really well, once you convinced guys that they could use metal core on gauge metal.You've got me curious now....I'll keep an eye on this thread.
Reply:I have learned a few more things.  Sorry, no pics today, internet is broken and I am at another puter.Donald Branscom,LN-25 has single drive rolls.  I now know why the LN-25 is not recomended.  Mine has no contactor.  I spent many times replacing the tip because I welded the wire to it either stopping or starting a weld.  With the LN9, the trigger in the gun turns on and off the power supply.  This totally stopped the wrire welding to the tip.As far as I am concerened, pulsed spray is a whole different process.   The arc runs in a state similar to TIG in a gas pocket.  The puddle is similar to TIG, that is why it works so well out of position.  The weld metal is attracted to the bast metal in sort of the same manner.  Surface tension seems to have something to do with it too.I had some problems with .030 wire.  at lower settings(50 to 300 ipm) the wire would melt out of time with the pulses and globs of metal would transfer and sometimes even short the arc.  I tried changing gasses, settings.....No luck.  I could not weld out of position with it either.  Once I switched to .035 things went back to normal.  Over 300 ipm, it worked fine, but if I had the wire feeder on 500 the welder could be on 700 to get the proper arc length regardless where the wave control was set.  Wave control:  I think I have it figured out.  The more I turn it up, the narrower the arc.  I can see it.  Getting into corners, it needs to be up higher.  For a flatter wider bead, turn it down.Using .035 wire with the arc control on 0, and 98/2 the settings on the wire feeder and welder match.  I am going to ASSume this is what it was calibrated for.  Turn the wave control up and I need to turn the wire speed (trim) on the welder down to have the correct arc.  Using 92/8 If I set the wave control all the way up, the settings on the wire feeder and welder match.   I have never been able to make such a nice looking overhead bead with any process.I must have run 20+ lbs of wire through it, .030, .035 and .045.It still amazes me every time I pull the trigger.Everybody that comes in my shop gets a demonstration weather they want to see it or not.  I have a nice pile of scrap from practicing.  I just picked up another job.  Weld new shanks on 36 NEW excavator buckets, installing 72 D rings and 36 hooks on new bobcat machines.   This will really show how the new process shines.  Half of the D ring mounts are overhead.  I am thinking the same setting can be used for the top and bottom.Can't wait till I can get my spool gun hooked up to it and do some alulminum with it.More later and a few more pics.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:We have to have Pictures.
Reply:I am going to TRY to film it tomorrow.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomDid the LN25 have 2 drive rollers or 4?