slag quest on 4g

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I am doing my practice projects 3g and 4G and I have a question on slag removal. Why is the first few passes so hard to remove the slag. Once I am half filled It's not a issue. Specs are 1 inch plated 22.5 bevel 1/8 7018 amps 130 3g - 115 4G.
Reply:Thats gonna happen with 7018. It sucks but just make sure you take your time and clean it well. If you are allow to use a grinder then just run it up each side to make sure all the slag is gone. If you cant then sometimes I take a welding rod and sharpen the end to a sharp point and use it to scrape out any left over slag.
Reply:make sure you are tying in your toes of the weld on the 3g make sure you are pausing long enough at the sides for it to fill in and not be undercut ... normally hard to remove slag is from leaving under cut be it over head or vertical .... the slag should pretty much just peel off when you have all the variables rightMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldingWookiemake sure you are tying in your toes of the weld on the 3g make sure you are pausing long enough at the sides for it to fill in and not be undercut ... normally hard to remove slag is from leaving under cut be it over head or vertical .... the slag should pretty much just peel off when you have all the variables right
Reply:Yea undercut is a biggie. The trouble with chipping the slag should only be on the first few welds. I also try to run 2 root passes on horizontal and vertical. Sometimes even with flat depending on the root opening.CERTIFICATIONS:7018M- H.V.O10718M- H.V.O11018M- H.V.O9N10- H.V.O71T-1-HYM- H.O.V100S1 PULSE ARC 0,035- H.O.V100S1 PULSE ARC 0.045- H.O.VER70S-3 PULSE ARC 0.035 H.O.VER70S-3 PULSE ARC 0.045 H.O.VER5554- H.O.V
Reply:Be sure to read the WPS before you start adding passes when you take your test. Welding outside of the WPS will end your test before you even get to bend. At this point not much rod movement should be needed. A good file is like gold.A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:I grind off the mill scale form everything including the backer.  This helps.  first pass with 7018 gets the rest of the stuff (impurities) out.  Next  pass plate is pre heated and clean as can be because you floated out all the junk in the last pass.I have a 3G unlimited cert.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:In welding E7018 on groove welds I would highly recommend grinding out all of the visable slag. Die grinders and a new half round bastard file will help. A slightly larger width disc than electrode will help when tight in the groove. As you weld out the slag will remove more easily. Take your time....slag on the hotpass will rear its ugly head during the bend test. Or x-ray........A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:I have to appologise....is this an open groove butt weld or fillet? I jump to groove welding without even thinking. Sorry....carry on.A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:When I took the test, a grinder was not allowed.  However, the tester allowed me to use a cupped wire wheel on a 4.5' grinder.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Wow...really? I wonder why.........how bout a pneumatic needle scaler? Those work best if you have access to them.A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:It was an AWS Test.   I did not have a needle scaler then.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:david i assume he let you use the wire wheel before the root pass and not after correct ?i also have a 3g and 4g unlimited aws certMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:The inspector wanted to see the root pass before I touched it.  I cleaned each pass with the wire wheel.  I also turned the machine down each pass.  It was with .045 bare wire and C02.  The wire had to be marked and he recorded it.  Lincoln....DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Sooooo, there would be no slag to remove using bare wire......right? I thought he was using E7018 electrodes?A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:Hi guys I have pics and a video I am going to post.
Reply:Here is the first root pass on 4G . Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Reply:A better look. Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Reply:As you can tell I was scraping with the file.
Reply:Here is a look at the weld after a hammer a piece of slag. I am running at 120 amp full arc control 1/8 7018 Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Reply:Here is the 2 pass I took it of and placed on table to get a better vid of how much work it is to remove. After a few more pass It's easier to remove just a small tap and it falls off.
Reply:I don't know about your WPS, but I would try to run the first pass hotter or pre heat the plate a little if its allowed.  Hotter first pass like 135 amps should make the slag come off easier.  If you want, I will try it at work today.DavidfReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI don't know about your WPS, but I would try to run the first pass hotter or pre heat the plate a little if its allowed.  Hotter first pass like 135 amps should make the slag come off easier.  If you want, I will try it at work today.Davidf
Reply:try turning your arc control to a softer arc and turn up your amps.  I would run 130-135.  secondly, get a steel pick.  slag comes off easier if you have a pick.  in my experience slag tends to want to hang onto a colder bead than than a hotter one.  your post seems to indicate the first colder passes are holding on the slag.  the warmer subsequent passes are letting loose of the slag.I almost never bang my slag.  I feel like i am forcing it into the crevices if there are any.  that is why i will drag my file over the slag and use a pick to try and pop it out.  most of the time it scorpion tails, but there are times when it doesn't.  I just don't  like pulverized slag in the defects of my weld.  It makes it harder to get it out.  especially if I peen the edges of the undercut over and lock it in.  I also don't care for the practice of turn it up and burn it out, but some times you have to.
Reply:We run into a lot of testing in Western Canada that does not allow a grinder anywhere while you are testing.  Real hard nosed instructors that oversee the test will say no power tools at all.  All you have is your hammer, a pick, and a file.  It sure convinces you fast to make flat beads.  And don't think there are not people who will cheat if they could ...hoping no one sees them changing the postion or having someone else run the test.  In the end they get shown the road but it ticks off the company that believed the qualification and puts the testing facility in a bad light.Last edited by lotechman; 12-02-2011 at 10:00 PM.Its none of my concern but I cant understand the concept of not using power tools to clean welds.........I started wleding back when the only grinders were the huge 9" ones. Thats why my shoulders are shot today!!!!!! Most of the pipelines we were on only used a block brush to clean the welds....but that didnt make us better, just had dirtier welds, hence the lax requirements within API 1104, not near as lax as they used to be but still light years away from ASME. I have one thing to throw out there........the meting point of slag is 45-50% higher than carbon steel...so how are you going to melt out or float out the slag? All that happens is trapped slag. Or increased undercutting, like I said no skin off my back but I would question even testing for anyone that wanted me to fail to start with.What type of welding and in what industry is this? If you dont mind me asking.A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:LOOK here'Careful cleaning between weld passes is recommended. Cleaning may beaccomplished only by using hand chipping hammers, picks, and wire brushes or amechanically powered wire wheel. Welders will not be allowed to use air carbonarc gougers, pneumatic chippers, needle scalers, cold chisels and hammers,5grinding wheels or any other equipment that may modify the weld profile.Removing test plates from welding position for slag removal will not be allowed.11. Finish Grinding of Test PlatesAt the completion of welding, (groove) weld reinforcement shall be removed bygrinding, machining or chipping. The final surface must be produced by grinding.The laboratory will make thickness measurements in the weld area and in ungroundareas of the base metal. Test plates reduced in thickness by 1/16" or moreshall be rejected and will not be radiographed.12. Inspection and Final IdentificationThe designated State representative shall inspect the weld test plate before andafter welding, and monitor the welding in process. Test plates that do not visuallymeet the requirements of this instruction and the SCM Section 723.1 will not beaccepted.After visual inspection of the completed weld test plate, the designated Staterepresentative shall die stamp the plate, indicating its acceptance. These testplates and all necessary paperwork shall be sent directly to the Departmentlaboratory by a designated State representative. Test plates to be shipped to thelaboratory by individual welders or contractors shall be die stamped and, inaddition, must have tamper-proof tags or tape attached.Once a test plate has been submitted for acceptance, it becomes the property ofthe State and is not returnable.13. Testing by the Department LaboratoryThe entire weld shall be radiographed. Three consecutive inches in the length ofthe test weld shall be evaluated by a State representative, and the evaluation shallbe in accordance with the requirements for tension welds in bridges. The area tobe examined shall be in the center of the weld length, selected to avoiddiscontinuities associated with starts and stops of passes at each end. In additionto the radiograph test, the laboratory may section and etch weld coupons todetermine if they meet the SCM requirements for weld layer thickness andnumber of passes.Copied from Herehttps://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/eng...-08_update.pdfThe hotter and more fluid I can keep the puddle, the more crap is going to come out of the weld.  This is for 7018 or tig,   I know nothing about pipe.DavidLast edited by David R; 12-03-2011 at 02:58 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:This is the wonderful world of welding.......we all fuse metal together but hardly anyone does it the same way.......Thank the Lord above we all do what we do...to make the world go round!!!!A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:David , I see you took the NY DOT test, I used to have to qualify for the CT DOT test, post Myanis bridge collapse. Had all position unlimited 7018 for structural. Same story in my day which was the early 80's NO POWER TOOLS, always thought that was foolish but in those days you didn't question the inspector, just set it up and ran it. Used a slag pick, hand wire brush and a scratch all. The All is just a very sharp ice pick and it works excellent for getting along the toe of the welds. A good thing to have for the overhead is a little flashlight so you can get a good look at those slag pockets if your in the shadows. Now once you passed you could use any tool you wanted on girder splices, pile spliced , bearing pads , whatever. Seemed kind of funny. I do remember being able to grind the mill scale from the plates and the backing strip.  That's right we had to tack our own plates up in the field. I think they come set up now but not sure. I also think they allow the powere wire wheel now.   First pass is always funky down in the groove and slag comes out a little harder, make sure you take the time to get it all, make sure you are puddling infront of the slag, a little more rod angle will help to push it behind you. Also make sure you are getting proper fusion on both plates and the backing strip and the slag shouldn't trap. If You have the heat right and the travel speed right you should be able to get the root in 1 rod eliminating the tie in down in the groove. Not much but it helps if you can eliminate it. Also start out on the backing strip before the plates and continue past the end of the plates on the backing strip to finish, that portion is discarded anyway.  Good Luck."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Nastiest test I heard about was for a dam project in the 80's  There were way too many people applying for work.  To separate the men from boys they set up an overhead Vee butt joint before subjects arrived.  You were shown in the booth and asked to weld it up.  What many failed to realise was that the overheat plate was not set flat.  It was tipped sloping from corner to corner.  You had to understand that you were weaving diagonally or your bead would fail to tie in on one edge.   Many failed on the first few passes and were asked to leave.
Reply:My instructor says all root pass have to be done in two passes side to side. I like to have it in one pass holding on the corners.  He said no weaving but I don't consider it a weave. That first pic is with a small side movement and back hand at a 15 travel angle.
Reply:You mean, cap pass? A weave is a bead that is more than 2X electrode diameter or there about. Ours is considerd to be 3X diameter of rod. Anything wider than that its a cut out.A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:David R, do you have the DOT license? I only have AWS, no power tools for that test, just chipping hammer, pick, wire brush. Hoping to take the DOT test in February.As for the original question, like has been said it's usually a little harder to clean the root pass, but being to hard to clean can be indicative of undercutting, so keep a sharp eye on that, and clean clean clean it.Last edited by BlueArc; 12-04-2011 at 11:05 PM.IW Local 580 NY, NY
Reply:Originally Posted by AwelderiamYou mean, cap pass? A weave is a bead that is more than 2X electrode diameter or there about. Ours is considerd to be 3X diameter of rod. Anything wider than that its a cut out.
Reply:Sorry my mistake again assuming an open groove test. I see know what you are talking about.A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:The problem is that when I do it that way I feel I don't have enough room for the other pass.
Reply:Here are some pics of my 3g steps first it the root pass pic. Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Reply:This is my second pass would this be a weave . I do a side and hold my corners.
Reply:Third pass  Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Reply:Third pass  Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Reply:4 pass  Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Reply:Here is the 5 and with 2 passes since at this point I was able to fit 2 passes. Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Reply:No, none of those are weaves in my book. What bevel angle is allowed? You might try a little more angle.A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:Originally Posted by AwelderiamNo, none of those are weaves in my book. What bevel angle is allowed? You might try a little more angle.
Reply:Thats about right....we would allow up to 32 but 22.5 is normal. It looks like you are doing well. It wont hurt if the first stringer just misses the opposite side by a hair. Your second pass will tie in well enough, you might be able to run just a tad more heat on the secound pass to really pentrate into both base metal and bead number one.A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:Originally Posted by AwelderiamThats about right....we would allow up to 32 but 22.5 is normal. It looks like you are doing well. It wont hurt if the first stringer just misses the opposite side by a hair. Your second pass will tie in well enough, you might be able to run just a tad more heat on the secound pass to really pentrate into both base metal and bead number one.
Reply:You might try that temp and less rod movment, kinda let the rod do the work and just watch the edges. If it starts digging drop the amps a tad. Its hard to really offer any help without seeing you weld. What brand rods you using? Are you bound to one brand?A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:I have had really good luck with Atom Arc 7018. We cant run them anymore where I work because ESAB does not use a hydrogen designator (E7018H4R) they just list the rod as 7018. We require the lower hydrogen rods. Outside of that they run very nice and slag removal is better than with Lincoln Excalibar for sure. I like the way Atom Arc starts up real quick and clean, reminded me of the old Murex. Just an idea.A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:Originally Posted by AwelderiamI have had really good luck with Atom Arc 7018. We cant run them anymore where I work because ESAB does not use a hydrogen designator (E7018H4R) they just list the rod as 7018. We require the lower hydrogen rods. Outside of that they run very nice and slag removal is better than with Lincoln Excalibar for sure. I like the way Atom Arc starts up real quick and clean, reminded me of the old Murex. Just an idea.
Reply:this works real nice..halfround bastard and a minute with the grinder..the repair weld is 7018..a reminder that files arent hammers.. Attached Images