Verticle up or down?

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OK, I did it today.  First I did a couple of fillets.  3/16" plate.  .035 wire, Co2 gas, about 140 amps.  One side is welded up, the other side is welded down.  Plate in center. Attached ImagesLast edited by David R; 05-11-2007 at 05:35 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Then I cranked on it with my little wrench. Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:This is the side I did down. Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:couldn't break it.  Bead is a litle too convex. Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Same settings Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:still about 140 amps Attached ImagesLast edited by David R; 05-11-2007 at 05:35 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:first the down broke Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:wouldn't break Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Hey bro, I like the use of CO2...Have you tried the 3/16 single pass with .035? How much amps do you need to get it "unbreakable"?Thanks for all the time put into this posts that answer us simple but effective questionsBy the way is that Straight CO2??? My welds don´t get that shiny and I was told that it was because CO2(I get em shiny with 75-25 CO-Ar mix)... I´m thinking about burning throu base metal now.My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:Got good penatration.  I have little experience welding down.  The bead on the left is the 140 up turned upside down.  Just saving steel. Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:200 amps Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Still broke.   Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Turned the wire speed and volts down for a flatter bead.  about 90 amps.  I wire wheeled the welds on this one.  Sorrry pic is blurry, but no porosity and toes are good n wet. Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:You can see the beads better in this pic.  Both are up.Thanks for watching David Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I was using an invertec 350 and LN-25.  This pair will dance with me.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Great demonstration.After seeing that, for me it will be . . . up.
Reply:Originally Posted by elvergonHave you tried the 3/16 single pass with .035? How much amps do you need to get it "unbreakable"?
Reply:I think the 140 amp stuff looks good.. Your getting there!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Great show of the different methods, thanks for sharing David!John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by David ROK, I did it today.  First I did a couple of fillets.  3/16" plate.  .035 wire, Co2 gas, about 140 amps.  One side is welded up, the other side is welded down.  Plate in center.
Reply:Nice demoDewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Hey guys,There is too much talent between the 2 of you and everyone else on this board to get into a pi$$ing contest over something that is not necessary absolute. Both of you know what you're doing and provide great information for guys like me to learn.  Lets not ruin it with the back and forth sniping.  If I have to we'll all get together and I will bring in my son's Rock'em Sock'em Robots and we'll settle this once and for all.Come on, you guys are better than this.Michael
Reply:Well put Michael.- Paulhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:But I do agree with everyone else, it is a good demo. And as the same welder, and same machine are used, it is informative.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloTechnically? Neither of the welds looks very good at all.Jeez, if my 175 had ANY inductance control at all...Howeever as soon as I get some more wire, I´ll do the penetration test myself to see what can I achieve...Nice looking machine, does it has AC for TIG?My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:Your 175 has the inductance built in to the machine.  No, I have no AC output on that machine.  It does Tig on DC.For Mig, inductance way up and it will run Co2.  Way down and it runs C/25 or AG8.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:i ain't commenting either way on the welds but this is what miller has to say.http://www.millerwelds.com/education...articles8.htmlVertical PositionsVertical welding, both up and down, can be difficult. This makes pre-weld set-up very important for making high quality welds. Since you are fighting gravity, consider reducing the voltage and amperage 10 to 15 percent from the settings for the same weld in the flat position.Know when to weld vertical down and when to weld vertical up. For vertical down welding, the welder begins at the top of a joint and welds down. This technique helps when welding thin metals because the arc penetrates less due to the faster travel speed. Because vertical down welding helps avoid excessive melt-through, welders sometimes place very thin materials in the vertical position even if they can weld them in the flat position.When welding vertical down, angle the gun slightly back into the weld puddle at a 5 to 15 degree angle. For thin metal where burn-through is a concern, angle the gun slightly up and pull it downward (i.e., direct the wire away from the weld puddle). Either way, keep the electrode wire on the leading edge of the weld puddle. A very slight weave may help flatten the weld crown.The vertical up technique - beginning at the bottom of a joint and welding up - can provide better penetration on thicker materials (typically 1/4 in. or more). The travel angle of the gun is a 5 to 15 degree drop from the perpendicular position. A slight weaving motion can help control the size, shape and cooling effects of the weld puddle.Making a plug weld in the vertical position is somewhat similar to making a vertical up fillet weld. For a vertical plug weld, the filler metal is deposited upward along one side of the hole. Then, another bead is deposited from the bottom to the top on the other side of the hole. Alternate sides until the hole is filled. For thin metal, use a similar technique, but weld in the vertical down position to prevent burn-through."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:The lincoln hand book for arcwelding says for under 1/4" use down, and for over use up.   I always weld exhaust down with my little mig.  Its much easier and I can get full penatration because the plate is so thin.  It also looks better.  For the bigger stuff, up is the only way to go for me.Thanks for the info backuproller.  I probably will be doing a little more down on the smaller stuff.I can't seem to get a clear pic,but here is the up butt. Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:And here is the up fillet.  These pics are really close probably 3 or 4 times bigger than life. comment away.  David Attached ImagesLast edited by David R; 05-14-2007 at 09:01 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:And here is the up fillet. These pics are really close probably 3 or 4 times bigger than life. comment away.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RAnd here is the up fillet.  These pics are really close probably 3 or 4 times bigger than life. comment away.  David
Reply:Nice beads, what is the one on the right. That one looks real smooooooooth !John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:im no mig expert but i know a good cap,thats one.reason being you concentrated on the sides and eliminated any undercut.did you use a u pattern to weave in the earlier pictures?
Reply:Thanks for the compliments, I needed that.      That is the same piece as in post 14 and 17.  Just closer better pics.The fillet is 140 amps, the butt is 90 amps.  I go back and forth pausing at the sides and not in the middle.  On the fillet, I make sure the wire goes all the way into the root. (a little slower than the butt)When using .045 wire (my favorite) it goes into the plate and the arc disapears.  I wait till the hole is full and move on.  If I go to fast, its undercut city.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RYour 175 has the inductance built in to the machine.  No, I have no AC output on that machine.  It does Tig on DC.For Mig, inductance way up and it will run Co2.  Way down and it runs C/25 or AG8.David
Reply:david could you do something for me?i don,t have access to mig could you weave a weld straight across rise in a half arch same settings speed of movement etc.thats like a letter z but slightly curved in the middle and flattened a bit oh and turned round i weave from right to left.i would be obliged if you would take the time,if it works could you post pictures im hoping it might flatten the weld.jes that was a mouthful
Reply:I read it three or so times.  I think you mean like across the top of a pipe.  Same weave up as down.  Am I correct?   David  Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:what i mean is just a vertical up weld,using a weave with that pattern always rising no drop back unlike a u pattern.sorry if i have mixed you up i dont blame you for being confused,wish i could show you.
Reply:Well, I am not much of a mig man, but here are a few pics of some I did.  I have three of them and only use them for light fabrication for the most part,  but I did play around with my lincoln 255 this morning.  Here is one on 3/8th plate, .035 wire using  17V at 210ipm.  I primarily run stick machines so don't jump me to bad on these. ~Jackson Attached ImagesI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Wouw, some look pretty nice... great job!Now to the destructive tests!My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:Originally Posted by pipe fitterwhat i mean is just a vertical up weld,using a weave with that pattern always rising no drop back unlike a u pattern.sorry if i have mixed you up i dont blame you for being confused,wish i could show you.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingWell, I am not much of a mig man, but here are a few pics of some I did.  I have three of them and only use them for light fabrication for the most part,  but I did play around with my lincoln 255 this morning.  Here is one on 3/8th plate, .035 wire using  17V at 210ipm.  I primarily run stick machines so don't jump me to bad on these. ~Jackson
Reply:david i hope i haven,t offended you, the power etc looked perfect on yourweld thats why i asked you, i will probably never get to use mig,just curious to see what kind of mig weld this weave produces perhaps i should have asked privately.lovely work hammock Attached ImagesLast edited by pipe fitter; 05-17-2007 at 06:12 PM.
Reply:did you offend me?  HECK NO   I just didn't get the question at first.OK, I'll give it a shot tomorrow.  Camera is at work.  On my screen bead mesures 3" wide.  I do get the picture.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:What do you mean you are setting amps?  Do you mean wire speed because that is how you adjust amperage on a wire machine.Anyways, for anything other than sheet steel up to 1/8" I would not recommend anything other than vertical up.  Vertical down is really only used on 1/8" - 18 guage material.  Vertical up is used on heavier material, structural and such.
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyWhat do you mean you are setting amps?  Do you mean wire speed because that is how you adjust amperage on a wire machine.Anyways, for anything other than sheet steel up to 1/8" I would not recommend anything other than vertical up.  Vertical down is really only used on 1/8" - 18 guage material.  Vertical up is used on heavier material, structural and such.
Reply:I tried running the weave that pipefitter was wanting.  It will work and does flatten out the weld.  I did not have time to play with my settings much but I do feel it would have been a better pass if I had run it a touch hotter.   I look forward to seeing David's as well for comparison. Attached ImagesI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Pipefitter,  just curious but is this the weave you use when running your 6013's on pipe?  It is pretty much what i do with that rod on vertical welds.   My second attempt with Pipefitter's weave. Attached ImagesI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:and the backside.....Sorry about the picture quality,  this cheapo camera doesn't do to well.  I just haven't gotten around to getting a knew one.  ~Jackson Attached ImagesI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......