Welding Magnesium. Why won't many people do it?

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So if any of you guys know I'm a car guy and had a question. The mitsubishi evo 8/9 (not sure about 10) valve cover is made of magnesium (stamped MG). My fabricator who made lots of parts for my car, I talked to him about welding fittings on the valve cover (for catch can) because I never seen them on an evo. He said he won't weld magnesium because it's poisonous or toxic. What's the truth to this?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Magnesium is a flamabel metal, I doubt you have any on your car. MG probably stands for Mitsubishi Group or something .. or you drive a British car Some aluminium alloys have a procentaje of magnesium in composition.You can weld the fittings yourself and live to tell the brave story on weldingweb, with PICTURES !--------------------------------------------------------------www.becmotors.nlyup, I quit welding.. joined welder anonymous
Reply:If you catch magnesium on fire it's almost impossible to put out. Don't under any circumstances throw water on a Magnesium fire!!! Very BAD things happen... I think CO2 reacts with flaming Mg as well as isn't a good idea either. Often the fire department just lets it burn out. Not a good option inside most buildings if you want to limit the damage. Sucks to have the FD show up and watch your shop burn...Solid magnesium isn't that flammable under "normal" conditions, but small shavings and particles are. If you cut or filed and didn't get all the small pieces, chances are you can start a Mg fire. After that, the part is gone.My guess is he doesn't want the hassle for the small return. If for what ever reason it lights up on him, he looks like a hack, and he's got to replace the piece. Add to that the fact he probably needs to buy more filler to do that one little job then he'll use in a life time, and by the time you simply buy the filler, the project isn't cost effective any longer.Last edited by DSW; 02-13-2012 at 11:39 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DonoharmMagnesium is a flamabel metal
Reply:Last edited by T E B; 02-13-2012 at 11:56 AM.
Reply:The valve covers on the 01 cummins I think the black one are magnesium bad juju once on fire.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOpsB5n9DZ8[/ame]
Reply:Oh crap it starts popping. Wow.Now i see what you mean when you say bad things.Ok so what are the sure sign ways to tell if a piece if magnesium or not?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by SJCI may be wrong but I thought magnesium was only flammable in the form of shavings/filings.  Think of a magnesium fire starter for camping.  You need to scrape off shavings to start your fire but it's stable in the sold block form it's sold in.  But who knows what will happen with enough heat.
Reply:In Viet Nam on the flight line,at Camp Eagle,"mules" were used to carry 2.75 inch rockets to the C model gunships, the flat bed four wheel open vehicles with the driver hanging  out in front of the unit were made from magnesium.  I saw one catch fire once and all they could do was get the rockets off of it quickly and watch it go to the ground. I have pics of it burning somewhere but could not stop and appreciate the remains....I don't know how it caught on fire...but we all knew there was nothing we could do once it started to burn.Last edited by GBM; 02-13-2012 at 12:46 PM.Weldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:It is a very dangerous alloy to weld, most times I have had welders use a special stick electrode designed to weld that alloy. But as someone wisely mentioned do not use water on it if it starts to burn. Fire Departments use foam to put out Magnesium fires.
Reply:Mag is surrounded by myths. One of the biggest being about it's flammability... yes it's pyrophoric but it's not easy to set fire to a chunk of the stuff by accident as (a) it's ignition point is close to it's melting point and (b) it's a good conductor of heat and so needs to be surrounded by heat. Yes, small pieces are easy to ignite (including the filler wire if you don't know what you're doing) but everything is easier to ignite when finely divided- steel wool with a lighter for example.Titanium is also pyrophoric, as with the mag swarf is very easy to ignite but the fire risk from welding either of 'em isn't really any greater than from welding in general. Magnesium can be welded and brazed with oxyfuel if the flux is still available, TIG is more common these days as you don't need to worry about flux entrapment and cleanup.As we're posting vids showing how nasty a mag fire can be here's another that demonstrates how difficult it is to get a proper blaze going without a big fire to surround it with heat...[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k017ZD8rpDQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k017ZD8rpDQ[/ame]Mag has been used for automotive applications for eons. My '93 daily driver has a magnesium rocker cover as did it's predecessor from the early eigthies. Aircooled VW's used a mag crankcase and transmission casting. Many motorbikes have used mag castings for decades. It's becoming more commonly used to reduce weight- cast seat components, steering wheel/airbag bits even the inner frame of some panels.It's relatively rare from a welding POV as it's almost always used as castings. Welding wire is VERY expensive. You can't weld aluminium to magnesium (you get a brittle mess) which complicates say,  welding fittings to say a mag rocker cover. With regards to welding fume it's not particually healthy but then no welding fume is. No hexavalant chromium (as you get with stainless) but magnesium has been linked to metal fume fever and mag is often alloyed with zinc which is one of the biggies for metal fume fever. Process plays a part too with TIG producing little metal fume as no metal is transfered across the arcFor identification... it's noticeably lighter than ally which makes for a good clue. Simple to confirm with some vinegar or a file and lighter. The acetic acid in vinegar will react with magnesium (fizzes away producing hydrogen gas) but not with aluminium. A small pile of fillings can be tested by trying to set fire to 'em
Reply:i know this is a welding forum, but in the interest of getting the project done; why not have your fabricator mill a couple of flat spots and use a compression type fitting to which you could connect?very cool vidoes!  kudos for that!
Reply:It's not for my car, it's just a curiosity that I had.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Simple answer, fear. Many people fear what they do not now, sometimes it's because they doubt their own abilities, sometimes its because they have EGO issues and dont want the appearance of having to learn ( I.E. they know it all ). Magnesium was commercially welded with the O/F method until about 1945 when the Tig process was created to prevent flux entrapment witt tee and lap joints, specificly for magnesium. Its easily welded with many methods provided you are aware of its expasion rate and account for it. Its not the nicest material to work with due to that, but the welding itself is much like aluminum.
Reply:Jody did a video on welding Mg.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weqTWwaaL0g[/ame]
Reply:I saw someone try and weld on a push mower one time, I can't remember the brand but I think it was German.  The lawnmower went up in flames and nearly blew up the concrete underneath it.  Wasn't very pretty.  Needless to say, the body was made of Magnesium.
Reply:my older brother used to tig mg for all the foreign car shops in town. nobody else would touch it. sorry i didn't learn it from him before he died. in the navy aboard ship the only method to fight a class D fire (magnesium) was to foam it and let it burn it self out. during a fire safety training one night we lit off some 1/4"x2"x3' twisted strips of mag with the o/a torch and threw them overboard while we were out at sea and it was quite a light show as the strips continued to burn while spiraling deeper in the water till we couldn't see them anymore. it was a demo to show the newbies on our fire parties how futile it was to use a fire hose if the ocean wouldn't put it out.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:I've welded it. It never caught on fire.  When I did it, it was repair welds on the the feet of cranes and boom truck. More specifically the feet of the out riggers. They are made of magnesium for some reason.Welding everything, from the crack of dawn to a broken heart.
Reply:Hi:Purple K should take care of any problems.Jeff
Reply:I guess I should have read all this before welding the fittings on that Evo GSR3 valve cover last week. I'll call him up tonight and tell him of the dangers.
Reply:I certified on it many years ago. Weld it just like aluminum except you want to bury the tungsten below the surface plane of the part. This keeps the reverse current etching down to a minimum.Cake.Two turn tables and a microphone.
Reply:Early Volkswagon transmission case were made out of Magnesium. You could put chunks of them and watch them catch on fire and light up the place bright.
Reply:Originally Posted by Zca4I saw someone try and weld on a push mower one time, I can't remember the brand but I think it was German.  The lawnmower went up in flames and nearly blew up the concrete underneath it.  Wasn't very pretty.  Needless to say, the body was made of Magnesium.
Reply:porsche blocks are magnesium, most professional grade and many consumer grade chainsaws have magnesium crank cases. A lot of concrete finishing tools are made of magnesium. If the stuff is so bad why would they make so many things out of it.The dangers are really overblown, it welds similar to aluminum and isnt flammable under normal conditions, only when in shaving/filing form is it pretty flammable and in small amounts it burns up fast. It does react with CO2, it burns hot enough to split it into carbon and oxygen and the magnesium grabs the oxygen helping it burn that much hotter (dont use CO2 extinguishers) its the same with water, it will split it and use the oxygen then ignite the hydrogen. Your best bet is to use sand to cut off the air supply to the fire.
Reply:I've done my share of volkswagen engine cases. Worked with a retired Northrup engineer that restored Vietnam era mules with magnesium platforms. Did a good 10 platforms with numerous cracks and missing sections. Some platforms too damaged were cannibalized.We had a fire response of argon gas, then sand and Halon. Never had any fires though.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.I welded magnesium several years ago. Just like welding aluminum. If I remember correctly you must use the correct filler rod for the alloy.  So you need to know what you are welding to match up properly.  The filler rods were expensive.MILLER 330 AB/PMILLER GOLD STAR 130KUBOTA BX24CASE MINI HAY PRESSBENCH MILLHYPERTHERM 45BABY HOSSFELD
Reply:There is one reason so few people weld magnesium.  It's because not many things are made out of magnesium that need welding so very few people have experience doing it.  The fire thing is a risk but it's not easy to set on fire and it doesn't exactly blow up in your face if it ever does catch.  It's a very slow burning process and gives off an intense white light.  It quickly encapsulates itself in a crust that slows the combustion down to the point where it just smolders.  Throwing water on it breaks the crust off which causes the sparks and flash.  I mean if you set a magnesium valve cover or clutch cover or whatever mag part you have on fire you can simply pick it up and take it outside.  The part may be ruined but it's not particularly dangerous.
Reply:I have welded a few different mag parts... VW tranny cases, chevy transfer cases, some sheet mag parts. It is just like welding AL.
Reply:Originally Posted by riley mcmillanI welded magnesium several years ago. Just like welding aluminum. If I remember correctly you must use the correct filler rod for the alloy.  So you need to know what you are welding to match up properly.  The filler rods were expensive.