tig steel question

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When I weld steel I walk the cup. Recently I watched a friend of mine dip his filler rod as if he was welding aluminum. Would this procedure give it the same penetration and the same strength as if I were to run over my filler wire.Sorry for the dumb question.As said by CHENRY:you cant weld on a thingamajig like that. are you even certified to do thingamajig welding ? I once saw an improperly welded thingamajig fail and eleventy twelvoteen things got ballywhacked. I dont think i would risk it.
Reply:Originally Posted by pbfoureverWhen I weld steel I walk the cup. Recently I watched a friend of mine dip his filler rod as if he was welding aluminum. Would this procedure give it the same penetration and the same strength as if I were to run over my filler wire.Sorry for the dumb question.
Reply:Originally Posted by pbfoureverWhen I weld steel I walk the cup. Recently I watched a friend of mine dip his filler rod as if he was welding aluminum. Would this procedure give it the same penetration and the same strength as if I were to run over my filler wire.Sorry for the dumb question.
Reply:Muchos Gracias friendsAs said by CHENRY:you cant weld on a thingamajig like that. are you even certified to do thingamajig welding ? I once saw an improperly welded thingamajig fail and eleventy twelvoteen things got ballywhacked. I dont think i would risk it.
Reply:Originally Posted by pbfoureverWould this procedure give it the same penetration and the same strength as if I were to run over my filler wire.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidIt can give more or less penetration, depending on the travel speed, amount of filler added, amperage, and other variables.
Reply:Dipping and running over the filler are both acceptable, but are not 100% interchangeable. Open root is often done by running over the filler (sometimes hand fed, sometimes a consumable insert), and is also done by dipping. I almost always root by running over the wire (feed the wire in the gap... on pipe, this actually brings the filler in from the root side) I tend to do fill passes by dipping, but sometimes just run up the filler wire. My welds pass all inspections, including destructive mechanical properties, just fine either way. Running over the filler (or shoving the filler in steadily at a higher feed yet) makes control of penetration and puddle much easier when running hot and fast, which is where I tend to run.
Reply:Originally Posted by enlpckDipping and running over the filler are both acceptable, but are not 100% interchangeable. Open root is often done by running over the filler (sometimes hand fed, sometimes a consumable insert), and is also done by dipping. I almost always root by running over the wire (feed the wire in the gap... on pipe, this actually brings the filler in from the root side) I tend to do fill passes by dipping, but sometimes just run up the filler wire. My welds pass all inspections, including destructive mechanical properties, just fine either way. Running over the filler (or shoving the filler in steadily at a higher feed yet) makes control of penetration and puddle much easier when running hot and fast, which is where I tend to run.
Reply:You can "Run over the Wire" but I it done on purpose when you are trying to "pad weld" something. I have only seen it done on pipe with a "PERFECT fit with a PERFECT gap...I don't recomend it and I don't teach it unless asked by a student. I have seen my Union conterparts teach it (we share my shop area while there new Training facility is under construction). The only place that I have seen it done on a job (believe it or not) was on a nuke job...they were looking for uniformity among welds by diffrent welders...That to me sounded like trouble...Ever see the movie China Syndrom staring Michael Douglas where they were switching Xrays on welds to save money....but anyway....Dipping the wire is also done when you "Free Hand" which is basically anything that is not "Walking the cup".  Some of the previous post talked about dipping while walking the cup on pipe...I think one guy even said that he feeds wire from the side...I do the same thing...feed one side then drag the puddle to the other side of the gap, which brings your filler wire with you, then back again where I dip the puddle and repeat!Jonesy
Reply:so heres another question. I would NEVER do this unless i was told it was right but what if you just dragged the torch over your filler. What kind of bite would that give you or would it just be a bite in the ***.As said by CHENRY:you cant weld on a thingamajig like that. are you even certified to do thingamajig welding ? I once saw an improperly welded thingamajig fail and eleventy twelvoteen things got ballywhacked. I dont think i would risk it.
Reply:I like to lay the wire in and feed it on the root pass.  This weld was done on 6" carbon steel, schedule 40.  I was at 231 amps.  I remembered it because it's an engine size.  I fed in the wire as I walked the cup on it.a little closer:...and the outside of the root pass:Some people have said that it looks like a crack, but it wasn't.  It's just lighting or reflection.  If you're feeding wire and it's not filling on the outside, you know you're pushing some metal inside.
Reply:wow thats a nice pipe weld!  It looks automated!Me!
Reply:My opinion is if you going to learn TIG learn how to free hand first because there are situations you cannot walk the cup.  I find walking the cup is nice when you're are going around tubing for a cage or in a position you can not hold the torch correctly to run the weld.I have walked the cup while adding filler and I think that is the best way if you're going to do it because you can be sure you are getting a decent amount of filler in the joint.Just my .02 cents.Build a Barstool Racer at BarFlyRacers.com!
Reply:Originally Posted by Me!wow thats a nice pipe weld!  It looks automated!
Reply:Nice stuff my friend.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:what are the red dots visible on the  inside?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadwhat are the red dots visible on the  inside?
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidI like to lay the wire in and feed it on the root pass.  This weld was done on 6" carbon steel, schedule 40.  I was at 231 amps.  I remembered it because it's an engine size.  I fed in the wire as I walked the cup on it.
Reply:That is a beautiful root...Heat is alittle high for my personal liking but every machine and everywelder runs a little diffrent....But I love it when the root looks like a wedding band!!Jonesy
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterMy turn..Yes dipping is good..I have seen examples of "Running over wire" before and all I can say is "Use a Mig then"..It's the same thing but diffrent..Tig is for dipping..Mig is for running a bead with a wire feed.....zap!
Reply:Yeah, you guys can tell looking at it that it was HOT and FAST.  I'd imagine total weld time on the root pass (hood down) was about a minute, maybe less.  It was somewhat of a challenge I had made to myself to see how fast and hot I could get the weld in there.  I knew I could backweld this thing if I had to, so I gave it a shot and was able to make it work pretty well.
Reply:Engloid, that looks like a machine welded that piece.  Best example I have seen in a long time.Laying the rod or dipping depends on the job.   I rarely walk the cup, but do "drag or ride" the cup on fillets. It helps me keep steady and makes for a better looking weld.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Thanks.  Most of the guys have already seen most of  of my welding career, took pics for about 5%, and then didn't take any in the last 5%.  I hate that I didn't take more pictures during the times I was welding every day and doing some of my most interesting work.  I don't want to relive those days unless I have to..but if I have to, I can still do it again.
Reply:Originally Posted by malichMy opinion is if you going to learn TIG learn how to free hand first because there are situations you cannot walk the cup.  Just my .02 cents.
Reply:You have to crawl before you walk is my saying for my students...I have not had one come back to me and tell me that they could not free hand themselves out of the jam that they put themselves in!!JonesyI think it's 6 or half a dozen, as far as what you learn first.  On one hand it's good to learn freehand first, because it's the one that will work anywhere, anytime.  However, when you're first learning, you have so many other things to think about at once, and you're struggling to monitor them all.  Walking the cup can at least help a beginner with steadiness problems.I do agree 100% that to be a good welder, you should be able to do both.  Each one has times that they simply can't be beat, and you need to be able to use each method when it is best suited for the application.