Bucket Hardfacing

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Doing some work on my first big excavator bucket (320 Cat) and due to me coming in to finish this project that's about 10% started I had a quick question about hardfacing...The guy who started this bucket just drew a bunch of kindegartener scribbles and quit, a little bit later he got canned. So now I'm doing this bucket and I know that with hardfacing basically you want to get a good grid laid on to trap dirt so the dirt takes the vast majority of the wear. With all these dumb little circles should I grind them off and start from the beginning? But then I think to myself that hardfacing welds have got to be a ***** to grind off and really eat up grinding wheels? Should I just go over top of em? I just want this to look good for my first real bucket job.1942 Lincoln Lincwelder 180, 2 Cylinder Wisconsin Gas1981 Lincoln Shield Arc 250, 3 Cylinder Perkins DieselLincold Idealarc 250 Roundtop AC DC+ DC- (80's)Miller Millermatic 250x
Reply:I use a gouge, hit it with a grinder and see how it goes.I have hard surfaced rotating equipment, but never a bucket.Here is a site with some info...hereWhat rod are you using?I've used 1/4" MAX-ABRADE SDLast edited by skelley521; 09-16-2011 at 10:44 PM.Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:It also depends on what the customer wants.The Powerhouse I was just at purchased a new D10 dozer and they hard faced it on site.They didn't use a pattern, they just pad welded the cutting edge and down both sides.Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:I would first consult with a hardfacing guide like Lincoln's.  I would then use a gouge to remove the unwanted hardfacing.
Reply:A picture of the pattern would be better, so we know what was done.Usually I'll put line on a 45 degreefrom the one side to the other leaning to the right, then I'll do the same leaning to the left. I'll use a base coat of t-91 fluxcore and I'll put the hardsurface on top, makes the run thicker and provide a good buttering base coat. Some hardsurface will call for a buttering base.If your going to do more of this, there is some very good and hard material that comes in wire, lays down good.
Reply:Before you even begin, you need to be familiar with the soil conditions the bucket will spend most of it's life seeing. Their are different hardfacing rods and patterns to be used depending on if the soil is sandy, rocky, clay, etc. Start here:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...reBU/c7710.pdfGives a good baseline and patterns to use. When hardfacing, you are not trying to burn the rod in to the bucket. You want it to bond, but not to mix with the bucket material. It will crack after you lay it on...don't be alarmed. Lincoln does recommend buttering/buildup with wearshield BU. This will give you a base to build the hard face on. Good luck and post some pics
Reply:There's actually a lot to hardfacing, you should read up on it.  Most have to be gouged out and the pattern/alloy, as mentioned aboved depends on the use.  There are also wear plates that make it a faster/easier
Reply:We actually have a WPS for the material to be welded on our job.It's a wear liner plate that gets 309 to the plate; buttering is 7018 then the hard facing rod.Clean up/fit and each pass are bought off by the CWI only because it's high speed rotating equipment.Is this a job that you are doing on your own or are you working for a business?Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:I am definitely not an expert on the subject,  but how could the extra scribbles hurt if they are already there? Worst case, it is just more material to wear.
Reply:Originally Posted by GrooI am definitely not an expert on the subject,  but how could the extra scribbles hurt if they are already there? Worst case, it is just more material to wear.
Reply:It sounds to me like someone who initiated the job has no idea what is required.  The type of rod, the pattern, the type of dirt,clay or rock and a multitude of other factors makes up for a successful hardfacing project.  Otherwise it is like money thrown away.  What gets me is that the suppliers of hardfacing materials go out of their way to have happy customers who return for more hardfacing consumables yet people go on their merry way running beads.  I have heard and seen so many failed attempts at wear protection.
Reply:Hardfacing doesn't like to be gone over. It will break off in small sections and leave the base to take the abrasion. I would use our plasma to gouge it off but arc gouging works good too.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:i would just run nice stringers on the rest of the bucket then take a 7" grinder and give the part of the bucket that the other welder did a quick zing. i wouldnt spend to much time on the grinding just make it all conform together and then build up if you have too.
Reply:Originally Posted by skelley521We actually have a WPS for the material to be welded on our job.It's a wear liner plate that gets 309 to the plate; buttering is 7018 then the hard facing rod.Clean up/fit and each pass are bought off by the CWI only because it's high speed rotating equipment.Is this a job that you are doing on your own or are you working for a business?
Reply:I thought you were going on vacation Expatwelder? Thanks for clarifying some things.
Reply:The liner is not clad material on the fan rotors, but they do use it on their crushers rotors.The CWI has 2 different WPS for each type of repair.They also use those wear plates you show in their coal conveyors for impact.We change them and I was surprised how easy they cut with a zip wheel.Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:Originally Posted by BCTimberwolfI thought you were going on vacation Expatwelder? Thanks for clarifying some things.
Reply:Originally Posted by ExpatWelderJust got back this morning. Bought the bride a "new to us" house while home, so had to come back to work to get some rest.
Reply:These lines you see are hardsurfacing pre-welded on plate, then the plates are welded and plug welded on the box surfaces or blade surfaces, they are called liner packages that we cut to fit and weld on. when they wear out we air arc them out and weld new ones back on.This goes on and on. we get 2 to 3 truck and dozer to do every couple weeks.Easy money.
Reply:Originally Posted by AndyASounds like a good vacation.I'm confused on the pictures you posted.  Are those parallel lines press break marks on the plate that you're lining the blades with?  Or are those hardface weld beads on the original material?I also see one where those lines curve up on the side of the bucket so I'm guessing it's not break marks (kind of hard to break a complex curve).
Reply:Got the bucket in the other day and Have got one side done. Here's some pictures Before and After of what I was able to come up with. I kinda utilized what was there for my pattern on this side, The side I'm currently working on I flattened out some of the stuff a little bit, but didn't bother to take it all the way down. Maybe if an Admin could move this to the 'Projects' link on the site it would be more appropriate. Attached Images1942 Lincoln Lincwelder 180, 2 Cylinder Wisconsin Gas1981 Lincoln Shield Arc 250, 3 Cylinder Perkins DieselLincold Idealarc 250 Roundtop AC DC+ DC- (80's)Miller Millermatic 250x
Reply:I had one guy i worked for wanted it in the standard cross hatch pattern But not as stringer beads he wanted dots every inch and a halfi always ask the boss what he wants because some of them have some ideas of there ownIt all pays the sameBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:I have a friend that used to do a lot of hardfacing, and once in  a while he would weld roses and other things into the bucket along with the diamond pattern.....
Reply:Using stick, how difficult is it to hardface out of position? Is wire less dificult?"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:You could have welded at least 10 complete liner pieces on that area in the time it took, and with the same filler material as it took to do that, so even figuring in the cost of the wear plate, you would have came out ahead.---------time is money6 Miller Big Blue 600 Air Paks2 Miller 400D6 Lincoln LN-25's4 Miller Xtreme 12VS2 Miller Dimension 812 4 Climax BW-3000Z bore welders Hypertherm 65 and 85Bug-O Track BugPair of WelpersSome small outfits that don't mine don't use wear plate because of weight constraints and some bosses also don't know anything about them eitherLike i said about the dot pattern job i was told that's the way we did it for years and that's what i want you to do end story I'm just a (stupid) welder and equipment operatorBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Well I'm worse than you, I'm the stupid welder - truck driver!1942 Lincoln Lincwelder 180, 2 Cylinder Wisconsin Gas1981 Lincoln Shield Arc 250, 3 Cylinder Perkins DieselLincold Idealarc 250 Roundtop AC DC+ DC- (80's)Miller Millermatic 250x
Reply:What motion and amperage do u guys use for hardfacing?Ranger 305gMillermatic 140 AutosetDewalt Chopsaw2 grindersMy Fists
Reply:Originally Posted by bp626indamixWhat motion and amperage do u guys use for hardfacing?
Reply:Originally Posted by bp626indamixWhat motion and amperage do u guys use for hardfacing?
Reply:Ok you beat me to the smart a$$ answer expatBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck