coping for railing

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what are you guys (gals) finding for the best way to cope the tubing prior to welding hand railings ?  I am not talking about one or two here, I am talking about hundreds (thousands)of copes. In the past I have used a mill to cope the ends, but a recent job has made me go on the hunt for a faster: better way. I have seen the tool for my iron worker, but it doesnt appear to be able to cope miters ? I need that capability for sure. I have seen portables that say they will do miters but at $1600.00 I am not sure its what I am after. I dont have a problem spending the cash as long as it is a industrial quality unit, fast and accurate with ends coped ready for welding.  I appreciate any help in my search.Dan.Repair Specialties LLC
Reply:I am assuming by coped you are talking about saddles (fishmouths) on round tube. Check Orleans Ornamental or King Metals. They have slip in pieces that might be a good option for something of that scale. Not sure if they are what you need but worth a look. It's been long enough I can't remember exactly how many different ones they have.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:I too would consider prefabbed stuff, first.  However, you could drill the post rather than cope the rails.
Reply:What are you doing?  There ways around mitered/coped joint.  If you have the option then you could miter joints or cope.  I just installed a small pipe rail Friday,  I'll start a thread later--don't know if it will help.  The quality of you finish would also determine what tool you need.Last edited by tapwelder; 06-07-2008 at 10:50 PM.
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=21958
Reply:For hundreds of joints, especially if you want em to look the best, those weld in ends (which actually come from Wagner, who makes em- King is just a reseller- http://www.jgbraun.com/coped_connectors.aspx )are a lot of extra work.First, you gotta weld a whole nother joint at each joint- twice as much welding.Then, you have to grind and sand em out, and if you dont do it perfectly, they look really crummy.So I am totally with Dan on the idea of just coping the end of the pipe to begin with and halving the amount of work you have to do.I have a Williams LowBuck notcher, which is the same principle as the ironworker dies, and I find it pretty clunky- its great for aluminum, but a lot of work on steel, especially on schedule 40, and its very hard to do anything but a straight 90 degree notch on it. I seldom take it out and use it.There are a couple of commercial systems that will do perfect copes every time, at any angle.Of course, they aint cheap.But if you are doing a few hundred, or thousand, a year, they pay for themselves pretty quick.Check these out-http://www.mittlerbros.com/Then go to tube notchers, and check out "ultimate tube notcher"- yep, it costs around 4 grand. But it is adjustable for angle and pipe size, and will work right every time. They are kind of a dedicated mini milling machine, made to cope, and nothing else.Or these abrasive models- again, not cheap at $4k to $7k, but they do the job right. Instead of end mills, they are a belt sander, so they work on any metal. Titanium railings, anyone?http://www.vansantent.com/coping_machine.htmThese are the three most common types of machine- a punch style, which is not very flexible, but great for 1000 a day, all the same, and end mill style, or a belt sander style.
Reply:The following was taken from Pirate4x4 and it's wat I use.The chop saw method,if understood , is a science. With known tube size and joint angle, tube can be notched with great accuracy. The notch is acheved by cutting two opposing angles on one end of a peice of tube, to form a point. The cross-section of this cut will be an elipitical cut due to the shape of the tube. Changes in boath of the two angled cuts must be made for the intersection angle and the size of the two tubes being joined. The only real limitation is the max angle of the chop saw.You start with what I call the base angle. This is the angle of boath cuts if the joint was 90*. For an example, I am fitting Two tubes together that are boath 1.75", at an 90* joint. The base angle, or the angle of boath cuts is 28*. These two cuts must meet at a point, and the point must allso be centered on the tube.What if I want an 15* joint with my 1.75" tube???? You must start with your base angle, witch was 28* for 1.75"(remember above), and subtract 15* from one cut, and add 15* to the other cut to form a perfect notch. So now I must make a 13* cut and an 43* cut , with the point centered on the tube. Perfect coped joint, with no grinding.Remember your base angle will change with the tube being cut and the tube that you are fitting to.Here are a few examples of base angles...2.0" to 2.0" tube, base angle of 30*1.75" to 1.75" tube, base angle of 28*1.5" to 1.5" tube, base angle of 26*1.25" to 1.25" tube, base angle of 22.5*1" to 1" tube, Base angle of 20*Now to fit diffrent size tubes together 1.75" to 2" tube, base angle of 25*1.75" to 1.25" tube, base angle of 45*1.25" to 1.75 tube, base angle of 20*1" to 2" tube, base angle of 12*I hope that helpsYou could also use an online template. Link belowhttp://www.metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgiMy Photos on Flickr
Reply:A quailty tube notcher and drill press, or an abrasive belt notcher/coper.Have we all gone mad?