Want to see a vid of "walking the cup"

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I have been doing some searching and even found this link, http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/WalkingTheCup.htm but I cant fully understand the proper technique without seeing someone actually doing it. I have been trying to teach myself through the internet and reading books but its really hard to do without actually seeing it done. I have a strong desire to tig good but no one to show me.Really old (&faithful) Lincoln SA-250 Diesel, &Longevity 200P
Reply:Here's a YouTube video of a guy walking the cup:[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cks3dIvRz0[/ame]www.lindgrensupercars.comMiller Dynasty 350Miller Dynasty 200DX - retiredMiller Millermatic 210Miller Spectrum 3080Miller "Power of Blue" stool  Miller Syncrowave 180SD - retired
Reply:Originally Posted by kjlindgrHere's a YouTube video of a guy walking the cup:
Reply:I agree.  He makes it look easy...especially the way he climbs around that pipe as he's doing it!www.lindgrensupercars.comMiller Dynasty 350Miller Dynasty 200DX - retiredMiller Millermatic 210Miller Spectrum 3080Miller "Power of Blue" stool  Miller Syncrowave 180SD - retired
Reply:Ok, I'm confused. What's feeding the filler? Is he only dressing a previous bead? 9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverOk, I'm confused. What's feeding the filler? Is he only dressing a previous bead?
Reply:Thanks. Sometimes I'm completely brain dead. I never get fit-up like that in my world. 9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Craig, fitups are pretty easy with the type saw they use in that type of fitting just depends on how straight with the world the tubes are runningisnt that a purdy sawLast edited by Mark...; 08-02-2008 at 06:14 AM.
Reply:I have an AVI file at http://weldingdata.com/misc/WalkinCup1.avi that shows the process up close. Its only 10-15 seconds long. There is also one without welding that shows the torch and cup motion a little clearer.http://weldingdata.com/misc/walkincup_2.aviI also have a page that describes the process with some still pictures and sketches. http://weldingdata.com/WalkingTheCup.htmLast edited by gaustin; 07-28-2008 at 08:18 AM.Reason: Added link for 2nd videoHave a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:If you need to walk the cup, you better be pipe welding.  And if you're pipe welding out in the field, I guarantee you won't have a fitup good enough for any kind of fusion weld!I can't see the vid here at work, but if its a smaller diameter pipe, he may have a k-insert, EB ring, etc in there.
Reply:Originally Posted by SupeIf you need to walk the cup, you better be pipe welding.  And if you're pipe welding out in the field, I guarantee you won't have a fitup good enough for any kind of fusion weld!I can't see the vid here at work, but if its a smaller diameter pipe, he may have a k-insert, EB ring, etc in there.
Reply:Walking the cup is not always easy, if your cup has sharp edges it tends to cause more resistance/friction thus making the force to walk/move forward harder.Most people walk the cup just like moving a heavy barrel forward.  NNNNNNNNNN ( something like that )..I personally like to use a different pattern... a little more time consuming but the end result I think is better..   888888888888
Reply:Originally Posted by smokeshowWalking the cup is not always easy, if your cup has sharp edges it tends to cause more resistance/friction thus making the force to walk/move forward harder.Most people walk the cup just like moving a heavy barrel forward.  NNNNNNNNNN ( something like that )..I personally like to use a different pattern... a little more time consuming but the end result I think is better..   888888888888
Reply:Be sure to post pics if you can....
Reply:Originally Posted by Mark...Craig, fitups are pretty easy with the type saw they use in that type of fitting just depends on how straight with the world the tubes are runningisnt that a purdy saw
Reply:WS6HUMMER, I want to tell you that the "walking the cup" thing is not something you want to learn. Sorry.It is not allowed on critical applications and is not a good idea.I know this is not popular but I just want to tell you the other side of the story.Learn to TIG weld without that type of crutch.Whenever I have been approached by a beginner welder and they say "I know how to walk the cup"They think i will really think they know what they are doing just by the fact that they know about"walking the cup" What they do not know is that what I think is that they ARE beginners with very little experience.If you go to any big production TIG shop you will NOT see this practice.It can only help to serve to contaminate the weld zone,overheat the torch etc.,.You can bet you will hear people say "I have been doing that all my life and it is OK.Go to a plating shop where big companies are getting weldments plated and tell me how many weldments show evidence of the "walking the cup" method.Like I say. It is a crutch. Just learn the proper way to weld WITHOUT resting the cup on the plate.Now let the fur fly.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomWS6HUMMER, I want to tell you that the "walking the cup" thing is not something you want to learn. Sorry.It is not allowed on critical applications and is not a good idea.I know this is not popular but I just want to tell you the other side of the story.Learn to TIG weld without that type of crutch.Whenever I have been approached by a beginner welder and they say "I know how to walk the cup"They think i will really think they know what they are doing just by the fact that they know about"walking the cup" What they do not know is that what I think is that they ARE beginners with very little experience.If you go to any big production TIG shop you will NOT see this practice.It can only help to serve to contaminate the weld zone,overheat the torch etc.,.You can bet you will hear people say "I have been doing that all my life and it is OK.Go to a plating shop where big companies are getting weldments plated and tell me how many weldments show evidence of the "walking the cup" method.Like I say. It is a crutch. Just learn the proper way to weld WITHOUT resting the cup on the plate.Now let the fur fly.
Reply:Walking the cup is a method of moving the torch. There is no evidence on piping components that it leads to any defects. But as indicated, it can be a crutch. It is much easier to learn to freehand then pick up walking the cup. I have made a few welds and often time do a little of both. As you get better at freehanding, you can make a cap look almost the same.I have "Walked the cup" on chemical piping, steam pipiing, pressure vessels etc. It is not a technique that is even mentioned in piping codes as prohibited or required.One thing that I have seen happen is for someone t o walk the cup without paying attention to the leading edge of the puddle. That gives a very good chance for non-fusion when walking over large wire. I have cut apart some VERY slick schedule 10 piping welds that passed RT and when they were cut, you could see the underside of 5/32" wire not fused to the underlying pass. The area fits so tightly that RT will not notice it.I do suggest learning to freehand first. I like to freehand all my roots. If the material is thick enough, I prefer to get rid of the tig rig as soon as possible and get some sparks flyin with something that can put some metal down.Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:I am not damming this practice Just wanna share another point of view.But I will say that I have never seen anyone do it, And the first time I heard of it was on the internet, here, in a situation like Donald described. And I have welded and seen lots 'o' pipe TIG welded. But hey, maybe the rock I was under was heavier than yours If I were you WS6 I would just keep practicing and learn to lay beads that function and look nice freehand, just my opinion.Last edited by Burnit; 07-28-2008 at 10:42 PM.Yup
Reply:Originally Posted by gaustinWalking the cup is a method of moving the torch. There is no evidence on piping components that it leads to any defects. But as indicated, it can be a crutch. It is much easier to learn to freehand then pick up walking the cup. I have made a few welds and often time do a little of both. As you get better at freehanding, you can make a cap look almost the same.I have "Walked the cup" on chemical piping, steam pipiing, pressure vessels etc. It is not a technique that is even mentioned in piping codes as prohibited or required.One thing that I have seen happen is for someone t o walk the cup without paying attention to the leading edge of the puddle. That gives a very good chance for non-fusion when walking over large wire. I have cut apart some VERY slick schedule 10 piping welds that passed RT and when they were cut, you could see the underside of 5/32" wire not fused to the underlying pass. The area fits so tightly that RT will not notice it.I do suggest learning to freehand first. I like to freehand all my roots. If the material is thick enough, I prefer to get rid of the tig rig as soon as possible and get some sparks flyin with something that can put some metal down.
Reply:WS6:Freehand welding doesn't mean free from the shoulders. Set-up so you can rest your wrists on something. Set-up so you're comfortable. You have to be relaxed and able to hold your position for the length of each bead. If your beads are too narrow, pedal up; heat makes width. A narrow bead is also caused by moving too fast. This is more common with MIG but will pertain to TIG also.Also make sure you can see with both eyes. Get in position, close one eye, can the other see the tungsten? Try the other eye. When I'm having trouble, sometimes one eye will be blocked by my angle.Last edited by Craig in Denver; 07-28-2008 at 11:55 PM.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:I am new to welding and I tend to just go with what I am instructed to do by my welding instructor and what the books tell me to do.  That being said, in the chapter/chapters that cover welding single V  "rolled pipe" with GTAW, it instructs on techniques of learning to walk the cup, and that using those techniques are to be used as the "root pass" and a more skilled welder can use it for following cover passes.   Not verbatim, but almost an exact copy of the book.
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverWS6:Freehand welding doesn't mean free from the shoulders. Set-up so you can rest your wrists on something. Set-up so you're comfortable. You have to be relaxed and able to hold your position for the length of each bead. If your beads are too narrow, pedal up; heat makes width. A narrow bead is also caused by moving too fast. This is more common with MIG but will pertain to TIG also.Also make sure you can see with both eyes. Get in position, close one eye, can the other see the tungsten? Try the other eye. When I'm having trouble, sometimes one eye will be blocked by my angle.
Reply:Check out this video of guys in the field, walking the cup.  I would consider this critical welding.  Also, my previous TIG teacher at my College works in the shipyard and always encouraged us to do whatever works as long as you produce sound and good looking welds.  If you can accomplish that by walking the cup, cool, if you have a different method, cool too.  Some guys frown on it, in my experience mainly old school guys, or guys that were trained by the old schoolers think it's a lame practice, others see it as another tool in their bag to accomplish the task at hand.
Reply:Oops, here's the vid..[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F0ypF6IdrU&feature=related[/ame]If you're building a turbo manifold, exhaust or intake components walking the cup is not necessary. You can produce a good looking weld with multiple stops. Just work on consistency and your starts and stops.I don't weld big pipe, like in the video, and I never really walked the cup cuz I never had the need to. But from the welds I've seen I prefer the conventional way because IMO the beads look nicer.Miller Syncrowave 180SDMillermatic 175
Reply:I've seen people walk the cup faster and slower.  What he's welding there is process piping.  He's fusing it without filler.  Many jobs like this won't even allow filler on the job.  The finished bead is probably only about 1/4".  His weave is going to be very tight, and the cup walking will be such that it is primarily used to achieve steady forward motion and arc length.  It is NOT being done to achieve a wide bead.If he was on 6" sch 80 pipe, he'd probably walk it slower and wider. Originally Posted by SupeIf you need to walk the cup, you better be pipe welding.  And if you're pipe welding out in the field, I guarantee you won't have a fitup good enough for any kind of fusion weld!
Reply:Thanks everyone, there has been some very good information shared here. I have a cousin that is an A class welder but always very busy, anyway he cut me out some stuff on their plasma table where he works and he brought it by. I was able to get him to fire up my Lincoln and he showed me a few of the methods that are talked about in this thread. I have to say seeing it in person is a really big help it helped me to see a few things that I wasnt doing quite right also.Really old (&faithful) Lincoln SA-250 Diesel, &Longevity 200P
Reply:This is the book that is AWS school ciriculum for college.     In my personal experience, if you use the walls/edges of the bevels to walk the cup, as each pass comes the spacing between the bevels increases and it tends to increases the level of difficulty.  Or so it does for me.  All that being said, if I can walk the cup, I do.  I just don't see why I should not have the most consistant bead I can put down.  Maybe one day, I can do it both equally the same, but as for now.  They are not.  I have not achieved robot status yet.
Reply:Originally Posted by smokeshowThis is the book that is AWS school ciriculum for college.
Reply:Thank you Engloid for clearing up much of the misinformation posted here. I also work in the nuclear industry and can attest to everything you have said.Bill
Reply:If that was the case Donald, then why do some companies call for cup walking on food grade process piping?Engloid has it right.   A friend of mine does a hybrid of the two, and this guy can weld I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:Originally Posted by WS6HUMMERI wish I could freehand and make it look like my bead had the cup walked on it. I'm using a 3/32  electrode and my beads are very narrow. I wait for it to pool up dip some filler move ahead and repeat, am I doing it right? I'm sure I have to be doing something wrong somewhere. Maybe I can get some pics of my welds and some of you guys can tell me what I'm doing wrong. Honestly my tig welds are flat out embarrising. Thanks, I appreciate the time and help. If I could lay some halfway decent looking freehand beads down I would be more than happy. I know with time I should get a little better.......I hope.
Reply:Engloid,You make some great points.  And I am still a novice at this most of this stuff.  ( at least in my opinion )...  and that is why I try to surround myself by people that are smarter than me and better than me at whatever it may be that I am learning at.  And this is no exception, thanks for the input.  Also, many people think practice makes perfect.  This is one of the most common misconceptions.  It does not make you perfect.  That's right practice does not make you perfect.  You ask why, because you can practice doing it the wrong way all day long, and it will not make you good at it.  The saying should be, Perfect practice makes you perfect.  Meaning, practicing it the right way makes you perfect.Last edited by smokeshow; 08-03-2008 at 01:53 PM.