MS TIG Beads

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I am posting this to show others what can be done with mild steel as far as bead profile goes.  A lot of the time most beginners start with stainless or aluminum because it is a lot easier to make that "stack of dimes" bead everyone wants to achieve with TIG.I started with mild steel because I needed to TIG with the material.  I have attached a photo of a bead I ran on 1/8" MS from a custom bracket I made for my brother to show that nice bead can be done in mild steel also.My method was forward 1/8", then back and dip....ditto...  Settings were 125A, 3/32" Tung. 1/6" ER70-S2 Filler. Attached ImagesBuild a Barstool Racer at BarFlyRacers.com!
Reply:Very nice..     I use the forward then back too sometimes weld it like you own it
Reply:It looks nice. DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:question- you go forward 1/8 to melt some puddle, and back means pull the torch back so you can stick the filler into the pool of metal?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadquestion- you go forward 1/8 to melt some puddle, and back means pull the torch back so you can stick the filler into the pool of metal?
Reply:By doing that all you are acomplishing is cooling the molten pool down, on a pressure vessel they would have you for doing something like that.
Reply:Originally Posted by matBy doing that all you are acomplishing is cooling the molten pool down, on a pressure vessel they would have you for doing something like that.
Reply:that last pic is how all of mine end up. im completly happy with that.Millermatic 211weldpack 3200 squirtgunsquare wave 200victory journeyman kitHypertherm 30xptoo much other crap to listtinkerer extraordinaire
Reply:I always thought it should look like stick welding.  Just as in the picture above. Screw the dimesYou have to work on the start and fill the crater at the end.  Nice stuff.  Look at starts and stops in post #1.Start in 1/4", get a puddle going, back up to the edge and weld forward. At the end build a tit when it cools it shrinks.  Just like you would pause when stick welding.David Last edited by David R; 08-27-2008 at 06:36 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:The bead looks fine to me, but there's no reason to do any backing up with tig.  As stated before, they'd have you cutting out welds on pressure vessels, or AWS work if you did that.
Reply:so  the idea is to keep a continuous puddle going/growing on one end /cooling on the other as you progress as opposed to individual discreet puddles that overlap?
Reply:I have welded the other way with no backing up and get just as good results.  I tried it the other way because I thought I had seen some articles by Lincoln and Miller about the backing up step.I will keep it in mind if I ever weld on a pressure vessle...  That won't be anytime soon...Build a Barstool Racer at BarFlyRacers.com!
Reply:I also read in the Lincoln hand book to move the torch ahead and back.  I just keep it going forward slow and steady.  Your dips make the dimes.  I got no rythm.  I just like the puddle to flow forward adding filler as needed.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadso  the idea is to keep a continuous puddle going/growing on one end /cooling on the other as you progress as opposed to individual discreet puddles that overlap?
Reply:Try adding filler to the front of the puddle and let it suck it in.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I have to agree with the stepping technique not being good. Alot of guys have a tendency touse too big of a filler on welds such as these, to try to get "that" look. The key is to keep a very high melting rate. Also, remember that you can increase penetration with your dipping technique.(pushing the filler into the puddle slightly will ensure 100% penetration)Use the most heat with the smallest rod possible. This keeps the melting rate high, and that is very important for overall weld quality. The bead should be flat as mentioned, with slight freeze marks from adding filler, not dollops. It's very evident on alot of aluminum TIG.I'll try to throw a few welds together to show the difference in a few techniques...
Reply:I 2nd what revhard said.Forward pause dip repeat is the way to do it, if you have the amperage correct and the correct size filler rod (1.6 is usually the best to start with). Stack of dimes is alot of ****, you can do it with MIG and oxy using the same tecnique. Even on your barstool racers you should not do this, you need the most amount of penetration possible due to the fact that welding and vibration DO NOT GO WELL TOGEATHER, this method does not help that.
Reply:I welded the following two pieces with a 26 year old sinewave transformer,no pulsing, no goofy torch moves or fancy power source. The stack of dimes look that people are refering to is not a marketing ploy but  actually a properly applied weld by a highly skilled welder using the tig process. Welders like Engloid that use there skill sets that they have acquired thru years of practicing there profession and have the capability of laying down the so called stack of dimes look are highly sought after in the Aircraft and Aeropsace industries because of those skill sets. Not trying to start a debate over the stack of dimes look but I dont agree with statements that lesson the skill involved in a welder performing a good tig weld. Attached Images
Reply:thats some pretty welding.insert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:Originally Posted by David RTry adding filler to the front of the puddle and let it suck it in.David
Reply:Holy crap.Now, THAT is some pretty welding. I no longer want to go back out in the garage tonite
Reply:Originally Posted by PropulsionI welded the following two pieces with a 26 year old sinewave transformer,no pulsing, no goofy torch moves or fancy power source. The stack of dimes look that people are refering to is not a marketing ploy but  actually a properly applied weld by a highly skilled welder using the tig process. Welders like Engloid that use there skill sets that they have acquired thru years of practicing there profession and have the capability of laying down the so called stack of dimes look are highly sought after in the Aircraft and Aeropsace industries because of those skill sets. Not trying to start a debate over the stack of dimes look but I dont agree with statements that lesson the skill involved in a welder performing a good tig weld.
Reply:Propulsion.  I don't disagree with your weld a bit.  I said many times it should look more like a stick weld than a row of tacks.  Nice work.This is a stick weld, 8018.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RAt the end build a tit when it cools it shrinks.
Reply:No cheating or tricks. There is no short cuts that I have found to increase the hobbs meter reading on a welding helmet, IMO.  Nice fluid movement with the torch and filler.Nice weld Malich, Capnbondo, David R.Thanks for the kind words: Chanry,Turboguy, Rojodiablo.Last edited by Propulsion; 09-01-2008 at 02:31 PM.This is the best I can do, hands shake a little......But I had to try, I even used the same stuff as propulsion  3/32 red or gold (only used 2 or 3), #8 gas cup water cooled torch, argon 15 cfh, Arcmaster 185 givin er all shes got to get a puddle going.  Both pieces are 1/4".  Should be a 3/16" fillet.   I can measure it.I did the top one in the positioner.What a way to spend my holidayI learned how tig the right way since I have been hanging around here.  I move the torch in a smooth forward motion only pausing if the puddle need it.  I'm trying to make a bead, not a stack of quarters. DavidLast edited by David R; 09-01-2008 at 04:17 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Figured I'd give it a shot...http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:A few from my archives.  The last two are of a high temp Inconel manifold that I did an outside corner repair on. Attached ImagesProud to be self-employed and not have to rely on ANYONE but me to make my way in this world.Dynasty 350DXDynasty 200DX MM 350PMM 210MM Passport PlusSpectrum 375 Extreme08' Trailblazer 302
Reply:Really nice stuff all of it.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by PropulsionI welded the following two pieces with a 26 year old sinewave transformer,no pulsing, no goofy torch moves or fancy power source.
Reply:Thank you Mud SPaz for at least showing a pic with some soot on it from a tungsten hit. The rest of you are making me want to go back to soldering copper for a living!!! Now all I need is a positioner, some REAL talent, and I'll be doing all right!!!! If those are respectfully 9's and some true 10's in there, I am HAPPY AS HELL to say I can consistently hit a solid 7.5 . It's not just the bead spacing. It's the almost caulking smooth edge of each bead you have done, all the way around, and so few visible starts and stops. It seems every time I even get close to a weld that perfect, one of 2 things happens to it: Either it gets ground smooth(SS) or it gets painted, and no one can see it in all its' glory. One of you needs to mail me some Pepto or Rolaids; you're making me sick over here!!!!!And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rojodiablo... Now all I need is a positioner, some REAL talent, and I'll be doing all right!!!!
Reply:ZTFab - did you wire wheel those after welding? Your welds have such a "shiny" appearance to them.
Reply:DAMN  I wish I could pull off something that looks half that good on steel. -DanOwnerDW Metalworks LLCMiller Trailblazer 302Miller 8RC FeederMiller Passport PlusMiller Dynasty 200 DX W/Coolmate 1Hobart Handler 135Hypertherm PowerMAX 30Smith O/A Torch SetPlus much much more
Reply:Originally Posted by turboguyZTFab - did you wire wheel those after welding? Your welds have such a "shiny" appearance to them.
Reply:What filler rod are you using?  I was welding exceptionally clean metal and paying very close attention to shielding and my welds aren't shiny at all
Reply:ER70S-2 ....1/16"Also, Pay close attention to how far you "pull" the filler rod back out of the shielding gas. Much like welding SS, if you pull the rod back too far between dips it will contaminate the weld (to a degree).Heat input also plays an important role...too much heat and not enough filler will dilute the parent metal and cause the welds to be a dull grey. IMO, too many people are too shy with the amount of filler they add when TIG welding.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Turboguy,Also watch your heat.  Too much heat from what I have seen can cause your welds to look dull.Build a Barstool Racer at BarFlyRacers.com!
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFab IMO, too many people are too shy with the amount of filler they add when TIG welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabHeat input also plays an important role...too much heat and not enough filler will dilute the parent metal and cause the welds to be a dull grey.
Reply:one question for ZTfrom the beads it is readily apparent you might have the steady hands of  a surgeondo you use any sort of rest ?insert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:Wow, agreed this post has some really good tig welds!!
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidThat has some influence, but it's more a function of what temperature the metal is when gas shielding is lost/reduced.  You can melt stainless for 5 minutes, and cool it without any color appearing...as long as it's covered the whole time with sheilding gas.  Just think about titanium when it's welded inside a bubble.  It gets no color at all...no matter how hot you get it.
Reply:Originally Posted by chenryone question for ZTfrom the beads it is readily apparent you might have the steady hands of  a surgeondo you use any sort of rest ?
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabCorrect me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that have to do with the fact that SS and Ti have considerable amounts of alloying elements like Chromium, Nickel, molybdenum, etc that help to stabilize and deoxidize the molten puddle. Which is also a reason why they can be autogneously welded where MS cannot be?
Reply:Thanks for the response Engloid....I genuinely didn't know and that is why I asked. You have far more experience than I do and I respect your work and opinion. http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:I've actually never gotton to go to a steel mill and see how they make hot rolled steel.  I think it would be fun.  I did get to go see an extrusion plant.  It was really neat, but not all that complicated compared to what I thought it would be.
Reply:point of contention.ALL steel is hot rolled......... cold finished happens at over 1200 degrees typicallyALL STEEL IS CAST.  every bit of it.  it gets cast in lots of different shapes , but all castmost of the mill scale gets blown off with water sprays right before it gets to go through the mill stands ( rolling stands) . the last mill scale you see on " hot rolled" bar is actually left there to help reduce corrossion while it is in the yard and during shipping.getting to go to all the different steel mills is the sisingle best perk in my job, I need to start posting some pictures.  we only rarely get down to the tundish and casting rolling end of the plants , our equipment lives in the melt shop for the most part.our newest customer makes railroad wheels.   and we are on the trail of a titanium smelter in Finland. blasted thing is 50 feet in diameter, where as even the biggest steel electric arc furnaces are only 24-26 feet.makes you feel little to see an overhead crane carrying 200 tons of scrap and the 150 ton bucket that is used for transporting it.even better it only takes a little over 35 minutes to turn all of that into brand new molten steelinsert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:very goodpost, lots of good info and 2 and 2 are starting to add up( isee said the blindman)..have been welding fillets in t joints(kicking myself cause i cant find my camera and post )..grinding and acetone..after laying in a bead one one side i see the back side  has gone dull grey and has a flaky coating that will in places pop off--this side needs recleaning befoore it will yield an uncontaminated weld--i am newb and going quite slow, probably cooking the metal..also i dont like my footpedal..it seems as i back off to lower the heat the range is screwed up and it shuts down too soon. so i step on it again..re feeding filler, i have noticed on tig and with o/a i can push the 1/16 into the puddle and it hits bottom and feels like its coming out the back..can and have gone too far and made huge puddle, what fun..also gotta learn to get off my *** and get around the corners...thanks again, lots to learn..
Reply:Chenry,I know where you're coming from but saying "all steel is cast" doesn't really mean much as all metals are cast initially after refining, prior to further processing. 'Cast' to me means a final product that gets its finished form from being poured into a mouldThe act of rolling (to form and size sheet/plate for example) refines grain size, closes voids etc leaving a denser, better finished product- akin to forging. As you say, 'cold and 'hot' in this case are in relation to the materials melting point, 'cold' rolling being an extra step after hot rolling to give improved tolerances and finish. Cold drawing ERW tube for example to produce DOM