6013 "no penetration"

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Hi all, been on this forum a while, quietly lurking, expanding my knowledge.I've heard the saying that 6013 puts down nice welds but doesn't "penetrate".  can anyone quantify this statement for me?  I just built a snowmobile deck frame using 1/8" 6013 and 1.25 X 100 wall square tubing on my LE AC225 at about 120amps (if I recall correctly - I played around a bit to find the 'right' temp)  It seems to have penetrated quite nicely into both pieces and I am confident that it is very strong.How little does it actually penetrate and should I be concerned?
Reply:The flux is the reason for the penetration question.   If you have good welds ect... your snowmobile thing will be just fine.... weld it like you own it
Reply:6013 is indeed a "low" penetration rod.  It doesn't matter though, if your joints are designed properly.  Beveling takes care of the problem.  Don't expect the rod to eat out the metal to give you a deeper connection (for want of a better word).  Become friends with your grinderI use it exclusively, and have never had a weld failure.  I've had design failures, but never a weld failure.It's a good rod for mild steel.  If you ever need to weld a questionable type of steel that may be other than A36, use 7018.  Like say, welding a hardened bolt to mild steel. Also incorporate redundancy into your design.  If worried about strength, design the project so that you can get more linear inches of weld at a given point.  Like gussets, etc.  Also, don't be afraid to use a built up weld at a stress point that you think might be handling a high working load.It's an excellent rod for working with lighter gauge tubing and sheet metal.  Not so many worries about burnthrough.  It lets you concentrate on making a good weld without havin' to move like a rabbit to keep from blowin' holes in your metal.IMHOWeld a fillet joint, then cut it with a chopsaw so that you can see the profile of the actual weld.  It's a good weld if you can't tell where the weld ends, and the steel begins.  It's all solid with no gaps.  That ought to put your mind at rest.How you design what you build generally determines how good it holds up to hard use.  You can use E80xx rod, and it's still gonna fall apart if it ain't designed properly.I LOVE 6013  But, then again, some folks think I'm an idiot"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Farmersamm I dont think your an idiot...I have yet to work with 6013. I only work with 6010 and 7018.Welcome.*insert welding gibberish here*                    Mandy
Reply:I use 6013 alot. Its not a bad rod for my uses with it. But i agree it can work fine with the proper joint fitup.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderShaneI use 6013 alot. Its not a bad rod for my uses with it. But i agree it can work fine with the proper joint fitup.
Reply:Originally Posted by ls1taI have a question. So 6013 thats a little bigger, correct?And is stick really used in shops anymore?If so, what are the typical/commonly used (i.e 6010,6013)?
Reply:I have several customers who by almost exclusivly 6013 in 1/8 and 3/32.. Its a great rod for sheet metal, and strong enough to handle some serious abuse. They work well on joints that have poor fitup, and you can get some pretty darn looking stacks with it.. I don't like it Horizontal because of the flux, and I don't support teaching it at the tech schools..I think the schools should stay basic.. Beat home the 6010, 6010 5P+, and 7018.. If the students can lay good looking beads with those rods, they can pickup the small differences between them and anything else they may encounter. It should work fine for your snow mobile. Low penetration usually means it just doesn't penetrate as deeply as say a 7018 would.. Still you can bend test a 6013 coupon and if the root it right it will pass. Hope theres something in my jumbled thoughts that helped ya.Carl
Reply:Its a great rod for practicing making those dimes.   As for those miggers, yes Stick is still alive and well, especially in hard facing, and Heavy equipment repair.  Most stickers make great miggers, but not many miggers make great stickers!  As for those gassers, they make great tiggers and great tiggers really don't need anyother skill because that's where the  $$ is.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Hmmmm. Ok. Well its good that we have those kind of rods in our shop lol.  Thanks for answering my question!*insert welding gibberish here*                    Mandy
Reply:Originally Posted by weldsupplyI have several customers who by almost exclusivly 6013 in 1/8 and 3/32.. Its a great rod for sheet metal, and strong enough to handle some serious abuse. They work well on joints that have poor fitup, and you can get some pretty darn looking stacks with it.. I don't like it Horizontal because of the flux, and I don't support teaching it at the tech schools..I think the schools should stay basic.. Beat home the 6010, 6010 5P+, and 7018.. If the students can lay good looking beads with those rods, they can pickup the small differences between them and anything else they may encounter. It should work fine for your snow mobile. Low penetration usually means it just doesn't penetrate as deeply as say a 7018 would.. Still you can bend test a 6013 coupon and if the root it right it will pass. Hope theres something in my jumbled thoughts that helped ya.Carl
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldIts a great rod for practicing making those dimes.   As for those miggers, yes Stick is still alive and well, especially in hard facing, and Heavy equipment repair.  Most stickers make great miggers, but not many miggers make great stickers!  As for those gassers, they make great tiggers and great tiggers really don't need anyother skill because that's where the  $$ is.
Reply:I think every welding school in this country ought to start everyone off old school and teach the basics of metal joining by using Oxy/Acetylene to weld with.Things that Oxy/Acetylene welding teaches:1: patience2: Penetration3: heat contol4: concentration5: puddle manipulation6: necessity of proper tacking7: motor controlIf one can gas weld, then tigging is natural. If one can gas weld, puddle manipulation and heat control basics are already skills in portfolio to rapidly acquire balance of skills.  And well just about anyone can learn mig skills but mastery of them can be made by a person already well aquainted with 1-7.The local tech school's welding teacher had ordered about 100 lbs of gas rods to teach the next quarter with before he resigned.  The new teacher they brought in cancelled the order after they had been brought in and did not think anyone needed to learn how to gas weld.  What a pity for those students, what a loss of skill and learning the ART of making a decent weld.  After that quarter, they brought the old instructor back and let the new one go.In the meantime, I get my gas rods @ 2.00 a lb. due to the overstockSorry, did not mean to hijack the 6013 thread, but in relating the use of a 6013 back to my point of the story, a 6013 is a great teaching rod for manipulation and puddle control.If I were to pick the rods a person should be familiar with and have stick time on, I would say: #1 and most important for general use 6011, #2 and similarly great for fabrication and critical welds:7018: #3 6010, great for fast freeze and root pass, but similar to 6011 in charachteristics, and #4 the best rod for production and fab work: 7014 and #5 because so many of them are sold and make gorilla ugly welders and mig converts look good: 6013Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Every book I have lists 6013 as a MEDIUM penetration rod.It is a general purpose all position electrode.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldI think every welding school in this country ought to start everyone off old school and teach the basics of metal joining by using Oxy/Acetylene to weld with.Things that Oxy/Acetylene welding teaches:1: patience2: Penetration3: heat contol4: concentration5: puddle manipulation6: necessity of proper tacking7: motor controlIf one can gas weld, then tigging is natural. If one can gas weld, puddle manipulation and heat control basics are already skills in portfolio to rapidly acquire balance of skills.  And well just about anyone can learn mig skills but mastery of them can be made by a person already well aquainted with 1-7.The local tech school's welding teacher had ordered about 100 lbs of gas rods to teach the next quarter with before he resigned.  The new teacher they brought in cancelled the order after they had been brought in and did not think anyone needed to learn how to gas weld.  What a pity for those students, what a loss of skill and learning the ART of making a decent weld.  After that quarter, they brought the old instructor back and let the new one go.In the meantime, I get my gas rods @ 2.00 a lb. due to the overstockSorry, did not mean to hijack the 6013 thread, but in relating the use of a 6013 back to my point of the story, a 6013 is a great teaching rod for manipulation and puddle control.If I were to pick the rods a person should be familiar with and have stick time on, I would say: #1 and most important for general use 6011, #2 and similarly great for fabrication and critical welds:7018: #3 6010, great for fast freeze and root pass, but similar to 6011 in charachteristics, and #4 the best rod for production and fab work: 7014 and #5 because so many of them are sold and make gorilla ugly welders and mig converts look good: 6013
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldI think every welding school in this country ought to start everyone off old school and teach the basics of metal joining by using Oxy/Acetylene to weld with.Things that Oxy/Acetylene welding teaches:1: patience2: Penetration3: heat contol4: concentration5: puddle manipulation6: necessity of proper tacking7: motor controlIf one can gas weld, then tigging is natural. If one can gas weld, puddle manipulation and heat control basics are already skills in portfolio to rapidly acquire balance of skills.  And well just about anyone can learn mig skills but mastery of them can be made by a person already well aquainted with 1-7.The local tech school's welding teacher had ordered about 100 lbs of gas rods to teach the next quarter with before he resigned.  The new teacher they brought in cancelled the order after they had been brought in and did not think anyone needed to learn how to gas weld.  What a pity for those students, what a loss of skill and learning the ART of making a decent weld.  After that quarter, they brought the old instructor back and let the new one go.In the meantime, I get my gas rods @ 2.00 a lb. due to the overstockSorry, did not mean to hijack the 6013 thread, but in relating the use of a 6013 back to my point of the story, a 6013 is a great teaching rod for manipulation and puddle control.If I were to pick the rods a person should be familiar with and have stick time on, I would say: #1 and most important for general use 6011, #2 and similarly great for fabrication and critical welds:7018: #3 6010, great for fast freeze and root pass, but similar to 6011 in charachteristics, and #4 the best rod for production and fab work: 7014 and #5 because so many of them are sold and make gorilla ugly welders and mig converts look good: 6013