Proper technique on heavy equipment

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I am wondering if there is a "set of guidelines", "best/proper way" to repair cracks on heavy equipment? Some folks grind out the cracks, and some gouge them out. How deep do you go to ensure that the crack won't come back in the same spot? Has anyone ever put any information together on this type of welding or is it all just learned from trial and error? 1/8 rods, 5/32 rods? 7018 or 11018? How about replacing weld-on cutting edges? I've done a little equipment repair, just fly off the cuff and did what i thought was best. It has held up so far. Thanks i know there are a few out people out there that this is all the kind of welding they do. Who's the guy that works in Ghana? His stuff is awesome.
Reply:Consult the repair manual for approved welding procedures and locations for that particular piece of equipment.  Different base materials and other factors require a considerable amount of gear to do properly.  Some items are also considered critical and are not to be welded under any circumstance.  If an item doesnt have an approved procedure, call the manufacturers tech line and get it.  Otherwise you are taking a very large risk.  If the equipment ever fails and hurts someone you will be held liable if you didnt  follow the exact procedure, some of the nicest and most artfully applied repairs actually weaken the structure due to embrittlement and too large a HAZ. .  Take your time, and look what is going on and act accordingly, Might save you a ton of grief.  Hate to be a buzz kill,BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:^^+1Like welding on a ROPS That's a no noBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Procedure is the word i was looking for that i couldn't remember to save my a** last night. Proper procedures for repairing heavy equipment
Reply:I have a copy of an AWS publication on welding construction equipment.It's an older publication, but may still be in print. I'll dig up the book and post the exact title and copyright date.The AWS  publication's focus is on manufacturing detail, but it also touches on re-work and field repairs. Even though emphasis is mostly on manufacturing level details and qualifications, to me, the book is very insightful as to what should be considered good practice with field repair and fabrication of construction type equipment.Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 04-09-2012 at 01:33 PM.
Reply:Thanks any information/insight into proper repair would be great. Most of my repairs have been farm related and most of those types of guys know what works and what doesn't but I would like to go to a higher source for info.
Reply:Hello jwolf, many moons ago and one of my first gigs in welding and fabrication I worked for a heavy equipment manufacturer who also did repair work. We had a manual that was published by the Caterpillar Company and denoted their procedures for boom repair and re-inforcement along with other details for equipment repair. Granted, this was aimed at Caterpillar specifically, yet I believe that it contained a lot of basics spelling out proper repair procedures that could apply to anyone's equipment. I haven't tried to google it to see if it is still around or if there are updated versions, but there certainly might be and it would be worth looking for. FMC, Komatsu, John Deere, Hitachi, Case, and a host of others might have something similar that is available. Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:I believe AWS 14.3 covers earth moving and agricultural equipment..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Is there anywhere i can look up the different sections of AWS codes? The AWS site just wants to sell me books, pricey books at that.
Reply:Quick google search...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_welding_codesYes the AWS books aren't cheap. I've found a few PDF's of older sections on line for free and if it's simply for general reference an older used copy can usually be picked up on Amazon for a reasonable price. I think 4shared has a PDF of D14.3 you can download for free.http://www.4shared.com/office/Olqouf...ification.htmlLast edited by DSW; 04-09-2012 at 04:10 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:sweet thanks why didn't i think of that!? sometimes i feel like i just put my foot in my mouth
Reply:"sometimes i feel like i just put my foot in my mouth"As long as you didn't step in something first
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI believe AWS 14.3 covers earth moving and agricultural equipment.
Reply:What part of the machine, bucket, dipper stick, boom, car body, track frame, frame,  cab,  tracks, etc...... This is a loaded question, go with approved procedures for the application.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Been welding logging equipment for a long time now. Most parts of a machine are mild steel,6010 root pass 7018 filler usually does the trick. Always weld cracks all the way through.Weld should pooch out the back evenly, and put a good cover pass with no under cut. Think of it this way, it already broke once weld it all the way through or you'll be doing it again real soon.Hickory
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11^^+1Like welding on a ROPS That's a no no
Reply:Hello gwiley, I might say that the answer in regard to ROPS systems goes something like this: you "can" weld on anything, whether a liability might come about is where the statement "don't weld on a ROPS to repair it:" might come into play. The integrity of a ROPS is an engineered thing, once anyone has welded on it outside of it's original manufacture, that integrity may become suspect. If it is your personal machine, weld away, just don't plan on suing anyone if there is a failure. Now on the other hand, if you are making a weld repair on a ROPS for someone else, that is where you now have likely assumed the liability and if someone has a failure you may become the first "target". I believe that may have been the intended message of the other poster. Best regards, AllanEdit: it might certainly be a good thing in some regards if we didn't have quite so many lawyers and "LIABILITIES", but then we might also have a really great number of additionally unemployed, right?Last edited by aevald; 04-11-2012 at 10:37 AM.aevald
Reply:Pretty much what he saidThere are tags affixed to all ROPS that state Any modification to the ROPS  structure is a no no unless approved by the manufactures engineers and performed by certified mechanics and weldersFor Exampleyou can clamp a cup holder to a ROPS but if you drill a hole in it and screw it to the structure or weld it to it your screwed if it failsI have been welding on heavy equipment doing repairs and modifications for years and yearsBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Sorry about the thread Hijack to ROPS mods.I figured the prohibition against welding on ROPS was something like what you guys have said.  Thanks.  I run these machines on my own property and am willing to take responsibility for my own repairs.  Just wondered whether there was some magic incantation one had to speak when you put a rod to the ROPS.Hobart LX235Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)Bobcat 773F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailerOutdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year
Reply:I cant believe nobody has said this, but drill a hole at the end of the crack to eliminate further travel. "V" it out as deep as possible and fill it with two or three passes including the hole you drilled, and please disconnect batteries before welding newer equipment and trucks with computers. sensitive electronics don't like stray current.
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11Pretty much what he saidThere are tags affixed to all ROPS that state Any modification to the ROPS  structure is a no no unless approved by the manufactures engineers and performed by certified mechanics and weldersFor Exampleyou can clamp a cup holder to a ROPS but if you drill a hole in it and screw it to the structure or weld it to it your screwed if it failsI have been welding on heavy equipment doing repairs and modifications for years and years
Reply:Nah it's all legal mumbo jumbo so that if the machine was to roll and the ROPS failed and some one died or was injured the investigators check the thing and find that it was modified in any way and not approved by the manufacturer then the witch hunt for the person who did the unapproved modification would begin i was just wanting to point this out to guys who weld on equipment that's allBecause a lot of people put there auxiliary hydraulic controls on there ROPS or to it's frame structureAnd like was stated you want to gouge or grind out the cracks and weld them up correctly as stated Sometimes you have to reinforce certain weak places by adding fish plates or gussets or it will break there again even after doing the proper repair weldAnd ALWAYS watch were you ground your welder put it close to your work as possibleGod i seen a guy welding on the excavator bucket and had is ground on the track Putting all that power through all those bearings and rams what ever was the path of least resistance to that ground from the bucket he was welding onBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Can the metal on a back hoe bucket or loader bucket be so fatigued that it is not worth welding?
Reply:Killdozer, quick question bud. I just bought LED lights for front and rear on my ROPS, I was gonna make some threaded bungs, drill the Rops and insert and weld to keep the job nice and neat, my dealer told me not too for my last posts reasons, and use u bolts. Have.t put em on yet so am I ok with my oiginal plans. Thanks bud!I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeKilldozer, quick question bud. I just bought LED lights for front and rear on my ROPS, I was gonna make some threaded bungs, drill the Rops and insert and weld to keep the job nice and neat, my dealer told me not too for my last posts reasons, and use u bolts. Have.t put em on yet so am I ok with my oiginal plans. Thanks bud!Yea ok DOZER, maybe it didn't come ou right on my last post, website not really phone friendly, always fights me. My dealer said a big NO WAY to drilling and welding on the ROPS, thats why he sold me the u bolts, told me don't take chances, said I could void my warranty/ insurance on machine if I had a rollover. I just wasn't sure if it was just protocall to tell everybody that. I guess on average most people wouldn't think to hard about it and just start drilling, but my approach would have been different with a shouldered sleeve welded on both sides, which wouldn't hurt nothing, but i'll just play by the rules then. Alright then, thanks bud!  I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:lots of comments about voiding the warranty and manufacturer specific whatever. I want to include your insurance company as well. In the event that you are injured in a roll over that involved some manner of failure on the ROPS, do you really have 100% confidence that your insurer is going to cover you? I sure dont. Its a huge gamble that could mean losing your house from debt.Weldanpower 225 G7Ironworkers Local #24
Reply:Yes the AWS books aren't cheap.
Reply:Originally Posted by tenpinslots of comments about voiding the warranty and manufacturer specific whatever. I want to include your insurance company as well. In the event that you are injured in a roll over that involved some manner of failure on the ROPS, do you really have 100% confidence that your insurer is going to cover you? I sure dont. Its a huge gamble that could mean losing your house from debt.
Reply:If you had a roll over and the ROPS failed your insurance company is going to sue the equipment manufacturer and the ROPS manufacturer if they are separate company'sOr in the case of a wrongful death suite it would be your attorney And like i said when the accident is investigated and it will be because people now sue for millions in these cases that ROPS had better NOT been modified in any way without written approval By the manufacturer     Because who ever did the mod is going to have a VERY bad day when the trial is over And even if it was the ROPS manufactures fault Can you prove that it was not the fault of a mod that was done and will your insurance back you.Those expert witnesses don't come cheap and the manufacturer is going push all the blame on you that they canIf you did the mod correctly that doesn't even cover for the fact that you can be held liable for a percentage of the fault For ExampleSay that the court finds the manufacturer 80% at faultand who ever did the mod 20% at fault are you covered for 20% of a possible multi million dollar settlement  The number may very as to amount of fault percentage but even 5% of a large settlement could be very badLook up the lawsuit that was settled for Loraine Crane Company from when the operator was crushed because of faulty welds on the boomI was working for E.L. Yeager when that happened but i was running equipment doing dirt work on another part of the same job and he was doing the bridge workHis wife and kids were awarded several million dollars i think it is still a record award settlmentBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck