spray transfer

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Never having run much hard wire I didnt really know the difference between globular transfer and a true spray. Went to 90/10 and now the .035 sprays in a true fashion at roughly 30 volts and 400ipm or so. Hard to see the meter on the Powcon but apprears to be at around 150 amps. What a process, little smoke and no spatter. Hand gets pretty hot though... no frying bacon sound either.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:Pure spray is great for long flat big welds.   It gets awesome penetration.  Smoke is almost none.  BUT like tig, it likes CLEAN metal.   I set the volts so I just get the oh so occasional crackle in the arc.  Then I know the arc is short enough and I am at the right setting.  You can turn the gas cone red or even have it drip off. Got Pics?DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Yeah, or have it slip off.I set mine about where you get an occasional crackle too.  The puddle stays more controllable too.  I use C18 gas which is okay to spray, but also works great for short arc transfer as well.  Also,  I believe this gas helps "hold" the puddle better.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Just in case it's never been mentioned, I hope everybody is aware that changing shielding gas composition can also alter the mechanical properties of the finished weld.  I think the different gases can affect how easy it is to make welds vertical and overhead.  The CO2 content doesn't just change the welding characteristics, it also affects the strength and ductility of the finished weld.  The changes in mechanical properties probably aren't crucial unless you're doing code quality work.  Still, it's one more thing to keep in mind if you're:  A) having trouble welding out of position, or B) working on critical weldments.I've welded in spray transfer mode, solid wire and metal core,  with 75/25(sortof), 80/20, 90/10, and 92/8 mixes.  I like the last two better than the first two.  Puddle control is easier, I think.  75/25 isn't really getting true spray transfer, but you can fake it.    Jury's still out on whether I think metal core is better or worse than solid wire.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Thanks for the tip David; I tried it and it does seem a little more controlable. Now Powcon is set high range 55 still at 390ipm on the ln25 high range. Scrap I am using for the pics is an old piece of 3/16 that I ground the rust off of. Spatter at the start I think is the rust on the edge that I didnt grind. My bad. Got to get used to going so stinkin fast. wire is radnor 70s6Last edited by sunline; 12-09-2008 at 02:38 PM.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:Hmmm, 0.035 solid wire and C-10 gas -should-  have an amperage of 175-185 amps to transition into spray mode.  That would be around a wire speed of 350-360 ipm and about 24-28 volts.The sound is supposed to no longer be a sizzling-bacon sound like short-circuit transfer, but more of a whooosh-hiss noise.And yes, as dab-will-do mentioned, changing the gas (mix) used and the transfer parameters used can affect the physical properties of the weld.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:can someone explain "spray transfer" a little better to me, how is the process different from normal mig? what kind of machines will do it this way? that penetration looks great on that side view pic-NateMiller Trailblazer 302gMiller Spoolmatic 30aLN-25 x 2Idealarc SP200Hypertherm Powermax 600
Reply:NV,Go here http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/MIG_handbook/592mig1_1.htm and 'Read All About It'.    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:A_DAB_will_do,"Jury's still out on whether I think metal core is better or worse than solid wire."Last year I changed over most of our solid wire to metal core. The deposition was much better. It runs a good bit hotter than solid. Our UT rejects are lower with metal core vs solid. Also it appears to penetrate a little better, we have gotten much better looking macros when welding rebar.
Reply:thats really cool, i think i might go give it a whirl. ill put up a few pics if i can get it to work-NateMiller Trailblazer 302gMiller Spoolmatic 30aLN-25 x 2Idealarc SP200Hypertherm Powermax 600
Reply:welp i just tried it. and let me say, that was really awesome. that made my day, i used 100% argon almost 40volts and my wire speed cranked and it could almost melt threw 1/4 plate. the weld was pretty impressive. then i was messing with wire speed and melted a tip lol. oh well it was worth it to figure that out!! it almost looked like a hot tungsten...pretty cool stuff!! i tried taking a pic but it figures my batt died-NateMiller Trailblazer 302gMiller Spoolmatic 30aLN-25 x 2Idealarc SP200Hypertherm Powermax 600
Reply:Yep, thats what I got a hissing sound, pretty obvious difference from the 75.25 which was a globular transfer. Pretty hard to read the meter on the machine and hold an arc at the same time. Also I have the VS clip right on the ground lead at the machine not the bench. Make a difference perhaps? I was seeing about 30 volts and 156A on the Powcon. Flipped it over and ran a short circuit on the other side, machine a little cold. Nice weld but a convex profile. After I ran that I turned up the puddle control and it flattened the bead nicely. So far I like the 90/20 better. Wire speed on the LN25 was not measured, just reading off the dial which could well be off. Also the Powcon is running single phase 220. This detunes it quite a bit from the 3 phase setup.PS I wonder if the gas is truly 90/10. If it was 92/08 make the amperage less and not noticible difference otherwise? I have heard of suppliers with aproximations of gas mixes.Last edited by sunline; 12-09-2008 at 07:00 PM.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:Originally Posted by \NV.Welding//can someone explain "spray transfer" a little better to me, how is the process different from normal mig? what kind of machines will do it this way? that penetration looks great on that side view pic
Reply:so when doing spray transfer welds does the duty cycle kick on fast running the welder so hard? im guessing yes. and just so im not in the dark metal core= flucks core yes no maybe so?sorry for being a newb . alsois there any  movement in your hands beside pushing the weld straight i would guess u could also pull this weld and still get good penitraion.Last edited by 92f150300six; 12-09-2008 at 07:26 PM.
Reply:92f,Metal-core wire is NOT flux-core wire.It is not 'plain' solid metal wire, in that the core is filled with metal powder and the wire is not just 'plain' solid wire, and the powder filling is not flux powder.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Really popular in aluminum
Reply:ahh thank u moon rise. ok so one more question i have to ask could u use flucks core wire to spray? im very new to all this and i thank u guys for dumbing it up for the people that dont know.
Reply:Metal core is an animal of its own.   Works a LITTLE like dualshield with almost no smoke and almost no slag.   The benefit is higher deposition.  Faster welding.  I seem to get better penetration, but it doesn't matter.  "Through the root and beyond" is all you need.  The only way I can weld out of position with metal core is pulsed spray, then its a dream.  No spatter, almost no slag, just little silicon islands. Spray can't really be done with C/25 or pure argon.  It NEEDS 2 to 5% Oxygen or 8 to 20% Co2.  Both o2 and Co2 are reactive gasses that make the arc hotter.  I use 92/8 because it does pulsed spray  and short circuit too.  I can set my welder to get a spray like arc with C/25, but I have no control of the puddle.With spray for me out of position is out of the question.  Pulsed spray out of position is no problem.Pulsed spray has replaced Pure spray for me.  Its easier and not quite as hot.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Remember folks,Those of you doing it with 210 class machines (insert brand here) may get carried away with spray and forget to ease up once in a while to give your machines a break.  You are at the edge of true spray capacity anyway.  Some of you may be down as low as 20% duty cycles on your machines.  Others are limited by 'light" duty guns that are less than the capacity of their welder.However,  I am still around 100% mark when I spray with my mig master 250 because it is 40% duty at 280 amps, 50% duty and 250 amps and by the time I back it down to the 180-200 amp mark, it purrs along without much thought of rest.  But I am still forced to back off once in a while because either my hood starts to melt or my gloves are smoking or my cone starts to smoke.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I think I got my lil HH 175 to do it once or twice.  Or maybe it was just globular, don't really know the difference.  I don't have any gas right now, so am using flux core, but also not welding heavy enough material to be able to turn up the voltage on it.But your right, when I did it, I was surprise at how quiet it was, no spatter, just a hiss & had to push that gun mighty fast.  And my gloves were smoking after I did it too.  That stuff is hot!!!!MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Short-circuit is a low heat input mode of GMAW.  The wire actually touches/contacts the weld puddle and a single molten droplet occurs during the "short-circuit."  The short-circuit transfer can happen up to 175-225 times per second.   Spray is the higher energy mode of transfer, where as a stream of small molten droplets are propelled across the arc.  Short circuit usually occurs below (approximately...depending upon your machine) 24 volts and spray occurs above this (just keeping it simple).  Spray is usually limited (mostly w/solid wire) to flat and horizontal positions, and you can use either solid or metal-core wire.  When ever I spray I use a shield on my left hand due to the extra heat.