First Welds with New Mig Welder

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Set up my new welder today, MillerMatic 180 / AutoSet. Test runs made with 030 flux core wire set at 3 on amp and 30 on speed. Made first runs on some 18 ga, had problems controlling my speed. Either went to fast and didn't get a good bead, just a trail of nothing to me, or was to slow and had some build up of nothings and then a burn thru at the end. Worked on my speed and was able to get a touch of what I needed to do...practice, practice and practice some more. Since I was having problem on the 18ga, I changed to a thick plate where I knew I wouldnt burn thru. See what ya think and let me know what direction I need to take. Ignore the date on the pictures, 2 pictures with the 3 welds are same just different view. Attached Images
Reply:Couple of general thoughts1st.Post up as much info as possible. What was the heat setting at? Wire speed? Alum or steel, and the thickness of the metal (I know you started out on 18G but what was the 2nd piece.)? Pushing or pulling the gun? Flat, horizontal vertical etc (I'll assume flat since you are starting)? Gas or FC (I know you are using FC) and what gas if that's what you are using. About how far away are you keeping the tip from the work? The more info, the better the answers we can give. No sense telling you to change X, and it turns out you decided to use freon as your shielding gas for some strange reason. sometimes the problems are too simple to believe.To me the welds look cold. I would crank up the heat probably 2 notches and adjust  the wire feed accordingly. You want to push the gun usually. That means aim it where you are headed rather than where you have been.
Reply:I agree they need more heat.   Grind the rust and mill scale off your metal before practicing, then scribe some lines in it so you have a path to follow so you're not just wandering about on the plate.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Thought I put some of the info in there, but this is what I remember right now; I hope I have the right terms, the top control (wire speed) was 30; the bottom (believe heat) was 3; 030 flux core steel no gas. Will try again on the 18 ga stuff tomorrow, maybe the welds were not as bad as I thought them to be; and plate size I dont know just was trying to get something I thought was duable and I hate to say was getting a little nervous and upset I couldnt get things just right. will try my welds again and will try to give as much information as I can remember. Oh and I was pulling the weld, will try the push thing. tks
Reply:thi siis a welding forumplease weld your head to your *******
Reply:Stay calm grasshopper, become the steel.....For 1st runs they don't look too bad. 18g with fluxcore will be tough. FC wire tends to be a deep penetrating wire compared to say solid wire with 75/25 gas. Don't get frustrated if it seems you just can't get it right. Keep at it. Lots of times on thin metal you will have to make short welds and then let the metal cool. Hard to say if that would have helped or not. There are all kinds of tricks that let you manipulate the heat with mig. not just the wire and heat settings, but those are the big ones to start with and learn. Mig LOOKS easy, but in reality its just the same as stick or tig. You manipulate the weld to achieve a puddle that accomplishes what you want.Don't worry about how bad the welds look on the thin stuff, post them up. We've all been there learning, and the only way to learn is to do and get feedback from those that know. You did post some of the info above, sorry if I sounded harsh. Wasn't meant that way.
Reply:Oh and I was pulling the weld, will try the push thing. tks
Reply:You're right sandy, I forgot "if its slag, drag". You can tell I do mostly solid wire mig and little to no FC.
Reply:OK, good or bad here is some welds I made this afternoon. Setup: 030 flux core wire, no gas, 18ga scrap channel, first 3 pics will be with welder set on autoset for wire speed, amp/volt setting on 3. Second 3 speed at 30, amp/volt at 3. Pulled weld bead L-R, I'm right handed so that seems easier for me. Welder may be set up right but I'm having problems be consistent on my speed and controling the width of the bead but will work on that. I'm sure I've left something off but will try to add info. Attached Images
Reply:Ok your penetration looks much better in most of the picts. Heat and wire speed is close.In the first one you started to move to fast at about the middle to end.2nd pict looks pretty good but short so its hard to say. Looks like one of the best. The begining was a bit cold and you probably started moving too soon. See how it rises from the plate at about a 1/2 circle, at the middle to end, thats not too bad, it could be a bit flatter but I wouldn't be too picky on a long weld that looked that way.3rd is too blurry to see well.Pict 4 at the bottom. Looks like it started out OK then you started to move too fast. I see a lot of undercutting and little fill.Lats pict you were moving to fast.Rest you arms on something, use both hands if needed, sit and weld, do anything you can to get a steady position. I've laid in a bucket and rested my arms on the floor to get a good firm position if that's what it took to get good welds.Here's a link to some stuff that may help with the picts.http://microzone.us/weldingforum/ind...ic,1488.0.htmlI'll add more to that thread when I get the time and shoot some more tests.Keep it up. They are not that bad. Keep posting picts of your work.
Reply:these beads were dragged from right to left unless they been turned upside down..starts still seem cold at tie-in. looks t like the heat is warming the latter part of the pass which is  gettting more heat/ melt..?is gun angle too "ddown the line" and not enough into the plate?good job on grinding crap off the plate.. get some soapstone and a straightedge and draw lines and follow em...u r a wanderer  just like me...
Reply:Here is some of the problems I think I have that is influencing my welds. As mentioned in one of the post FC and thin metal may not be the best starting point, so, should I go ahead and get a bottle of CO2 and some unshielded wire to learn on? I have a tendency to lean the gun back, not keeping it in a more upright manner, I think this is because I'm trying to look at the weld and leaning it back some. And I have problems seeing things close up with the lens I've got, just a regular hood believe it has a 3 to 3/12 by 2 lens opening and a #8 lens. What is the lightest I can go and still have eye protection (I know that is kinda individual question) but can you go too light or too dark. I do appreciate all the feed back and I know the pics aren't the greatest - I was using the close up option on my camera, will try some-other settings and see what happens. Will try again today.
Reply:What gun does the MM180 come with? Just for giggles take the gas cone off, spray your diffuser area with anti spatter. Now you'll be able to see. Keep that gun up at 5º or 10º. Vary the ESO as you travel to see what effect it has. I adjust the ESO for a hisss, which can be a pretty short stick out sometimes. Flux core seems quite a bit brighter to me than solid wire so at times you really need a darker shade, especially on outside corners. A number 8 seems light to me.
Reply:You reallly shouldn't go lighter than a shade 9 filter lens for electric arc welding processes.  If you're using too light a shade, the light of the arc may be blinding you from seeing the puddle clearly.   Try a shade 10.The 2x4 lens size you have should be plenty big enough to let you see what you're doing, unless you're welding in a very restricted access area like up underneath a car.Keep your torch drag angle more vertical than horizontal.  10 to 20 degrees back from vertical is plenty enough drag angle.  This means if you're welding flat, you need to hold the back of the torch UP.  As you get tired, the back of the torch will want to drop.  Concentrate on holding it up.  Miller does make a small cone shaped fluxcore nozzle end for the M10 torch that eliminates the gas nozzle and is easier to see around.  It only cost about $10 at the local weld supply.  The Miller part number is 226-190.  It also helps save wrecking your diffuser and gas nozzle with fluxcore spatter and stops the problem of spatter buildup in the nozzle from dropping out into the weld if you don't constantly clean it out.From the looks of the beads, you just need to practice moving the torch at a constant speed in a straight line and holding a constant drag and work angle.   Scribing lines on your practice plate to follow will help with the straight line issue.Last edited by DesertRider33; 03-08-2009 at 12:11 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Co2 and solid wire also gives you deep penetration. 75/25 mig gas would be your best choice for thin metals. That's not to say you can't use FC or CO2 on thin metal, only that's not where their strengths lie.As far as shades I mig welded for years with a #10 in a standard hood or an old fixed shade 10 AD Lincoln. Played a bit with a few fixed darker lenses on stick. Now that I have an adjustable Miller elite AD I can really play with the shades and find out what works best. On tig its an 8 or 9, mostly on mig its 11-12 that I find seems to work best. I was amazed how much better I could see the puddle on mig as soon as I changed to the darker shades.Any 8-13 lens will protect your eyes. However if you can't see the puddle clearly due to the glare then you need a darker shade. If you weld and then see a spot like you were starring at a bare light bulb, you probably need a darker shade.
Reply:"OK, good or bad here is some welds I made this afternoon. Setup: 030 flux core wire, no gas, 18ga scrap channel, first 3 pics will be with welder set on autoset for wire speed, amp/volt setting on 3"There's yer problemo..Auto Set is for SOLID wire and Gas only- notice where it states to use Argon/Co2It no work with FC wire Attached ImagesEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:What brand of wire are you using?Miller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1"OK, good or bad here is some welds I made this afternoon. Setup: 030 flux core wire, no gas, 18ga scrap channel, first 3 pics will be with welder set on autoset for wire speed, amp/volt setting on 3"There's yer problemo..Auto Set is for SOLID wire and Gas only- notice where it states to use Argon/Co2It no work with FC wire
Reply:Originally Posted by Sparky8370Wouldn't that only apply if he was using gas? That's what I would think looking at that.
Reply:Can't tell by the OP if it was set on autoset or not.Tim Beeker.
Reply:Originally Posted by tnjindCan't tell by the OP if it was set on autoset or not.
Reply:Yep, post 9.Used to seeing quotes in the "quote" box.My bad.Tim Beeker.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Yes-That is my point-He said he had the machine on Auto Set with Fluxcore wire... but Auto Set only works with Solid Wire and C25 gas
Reply:AS is for Solid wire & C25 gas. No other gas. It was deigned with C25 in mind.The Chart is for Manually setting the machine.Yes, they have suggested settings for FC because the machine can run FC... BUT...The Chart does not apply to the AS Function because you either put it on .024 or .030 and the Machine selects the Wire Speed.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Thanks, Ed.And congrats to the OP for asking good questions, giving us details, and posting pictures, and recognizing that you won't be an expert after 15 minutes on the Internet.  Keep it up and keep us posted.Originally Posted by Broccoli1AS is for Solid wire & C25 gas. No other gas. It was deigned with C25 in mind.The Chart is for Manually setting the machine.Yes, they have suggested settings for FC because the machine can run FC... BUT...The Chart does not apply to the AS Function because you either put it on .024 or .030 and the Machine selects the Wire Speed.
Reply:Appreciate all the feedback and questions. Hope I can answer all of them satisfactorily.First, let me say that I am a "little" confused over some of settings and how the manual has the information listed. When I get to thinking..is this what they mean? then I doubly confuse myself..so I do really appreciate the feedback and I know the Internet will not make me a welder but it will sure help my knowledge about the machine and what to look for when having problems. The wire is E71T-GS from Plusar (belief that is close on the brand, bought at my LWS - Airgas); Gun is M-10, set on DCEN. The settings in the manual and on the welder are not explicit, but after some of the feedback I may have interpreted them wrong. On the hood on Auto-Set mood, I selected .030 and selected 14ga one time and 18ga on another run, but for this will use 14 ga because that is what I cleaned up to use tomorrow. Under AS it says use 75/25 gas for shielding gas..it doesn't say for AS you must use a shielding gas..see how I can misread things without the experience? Ref to my using CO2..I maybe wrong, but will go back and look at some of the posts, but again "I was thinking" somewhere it mentioned CO2 was cheaper and worked just as well..but I don't want to do anything at all to damage the welder and will what is best for the welder. And I did watch some videos of mig welding and one did show removing the cone for FC but I thought it might damage the nozzle (thinking again); will get a FC cone and solve that. I again thought if the lens was lighter you could see more, but as stated, the lighter lens may be letting in too much light because I did make some scribe lines and made some lines with soapstone..but to no avail when I started welding. Will see what a darker lens will do. One more thing and I will quit for awhile...on the manual set up: FC 030 no gas, 14 ga, wire speed = 30, voltage = 3. Change to AS, move dial on wire speed far right, set material to 14ga and the voltage is around 5 to 6. If the AS is for gas welding only, is there that much difference in the voltage when steel wire and gas vs FC no gas. Is that understandable. Ok thanks again for all the input and will hit the books and read some more. Trying to learn but sometimes this ol timer gets a case of CRS and it lasts for days. jr
Reply:The AS is for Argon Co2 Mix gas and Solid wire.You are using Fluxcore.Turn off the Auto Set.Look at the Chart for .030 Fluxcore wire and whatever gauge material you are using- adjust from there.Turn up wire speed or turn it downEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:RE: CO2You can not use CO2 with the AutoSet- well you can but the AS was designed for C25You will not damage the machine using CO2 BUT the regulator that comes with the machine is not designed for CO2 so it may freeze up.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Jayray as far as CO2 vs C25 (argon/ CO2) they are not the same.  You won't hurt the machine using either.CO2 The gas is somewhat less expensive ( Looking at Millers manual I see a note not to use the reg for CO2 but to use a different reg, IF the machine came with a reg for C25 then don't forget that you need to add the cost of a CO2 reg to the gas . I don't run CO2 so I can't answer that question)You get deeper penetration with CO2, look at the chart for thickness and settings and you will see that with CO2 you can weld thicker steel than with C25. (this is both a good and bad point for CO2.CO2 tends to be a bit more forgiving than C25 with rust, but not much.Co2 will give you more spatter than with C25. That means more cleanup.C25 (75%argon/ 25% CO2)Gas will cost a bit more. (see note on reg above) The same reg that works on C25 will also work on 100% argon and other mixes like trimix for SS.C25 can be used to a limited extent on SS. If you do alot of SS or its critical use trimix, but for the occasional small roll of SS it seems to work fine for me. I don't believe CO2 will work at all for SS, but I don't use CO2 at all.C25 gives somewhat less penetration than CO2 at the same power settings. This makes it good for thin metals like autobody work.C25 produces less spatter than CO2.100% argon (just to fill out the gas list)Needed for alum. Uses the same reg as C25.Some guys swear by CO2 (some at it), generally those that run small 110v machines that need the penetration. Most guys with 220v machines tend to use C25 as it produces better welds than CO2. CO2 does have applications on some heavy work like dual shield, (but that's a different matter and I doubt your machine has the balls to run dual shield wire well).