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Hello all, I did a little stick welding when I was younger but haven't welded anything in years. I recently came across a new Thermal Arc GTSW 300 square wave inverter and bought it for peanuts from an estate sale. I'm told this is a nice machine and I'd like to play with it.It may seem like an obvious question but I've never dealt with getting gases before. How does one go about this? Can I just go to any welding supply and they'll deal with a little guy like me? Do I buy my own cylinder or rent? How does all that work? Is argon expensive?I have everything else (flowmeter, torch, ect), I just need to get some gas and whack away at this. I've done some O/A brazing and cutting but it was at a former job so I never had to worry about getting my own gas. I'm a maintenance engineer and hobby machinist so I already know something about metals.I'd like to play with this thing and eventually learn to weld aluminum with it. I've read lots on TIG and now I'd like to fire the thing up and try it out on steel. Any advice beyond gasses is also appreciated, such as the best tungsten composition for general welding.Thanks,Gary
Reply:Hi Gary. I would buy a cylinder instead of renting. The shops will be happy to fix you up. The main consideration is tank size. If you think you wil be doing a lot of welding I would go with the large cylinder. I always forget the sizes.
Reply:Gary, do some reading in the Army Manual on welding,http://155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dl...2.htm#fig12_10Just about every process is well covered, and you might as well learn from a book you already paid for.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:Sure, just head on down to the welding supply - your money is as green as anybody else's You're probably best off buying a cylinder in the long run, and a lot of places won't rent to individuals anyway.An 80 CF or 125 CF cylinder are probably the choices most hobbyists like myself go with. You may find that the difference in cost is negligible to have the larger cylinder.Prices vary widely around the country but expect to pay $125 to $200, Argon runs $20-$40 for fills. I recently bought a new 125CF Argon Cylinder - it cost me $165 for the steel, and $15 for the first fill with subsequent fills at $34. There are suppliers my town that will fill it for $24, though.
Reply:Gary, Nice find on the 300-GTSW, I have the older 250-GTSW. Yours should have the pulser control "built-in". Learn to us it and you'll be welding like a pro in no time. I, too would buy the cylinders as Zrexxer suggests above. Start with a 80/92cf size and if you find that you have to refill it too often you can always trade up to the next size. Most welding suppliers will give you full credit for your cylinder (not contents) as long as you are trading up in size.
Reply:Thanx to all who replied. Franz, I have the Army book and a whole lot more. I'm pretty anal about the academics when I want to learn something new but I know the guys with experience have the real scoop. Books are good but experience beats them everytimeI looked into buying a cylinder. A 125 CF is 150 bux with a fill price of $50. Seems high? This is from the local AirGas place. Btw, what happens when I refill it? They exchange it out right? Well, what prevents me from getting a bottle that's soon to be out of hydro after I buy a new one with a 10 year test? SDean: My mistake, my unit is the GTSW 250 like your's. An oddball, TA doesn't seem to support it any more. One reason I got it so cheap ($200) is that it seems to be a model designed for the Japanese market that requires 44O volts. That and the owner wasn't using it. (Deceased) I just about fell over when they accepted my offer. It even has the optional meter kit on it. I got lucky is all.He was running it off a transformer from single phase 220 which derates it a bit. Since I'm an EE it was no problem to open it up and modify it for 220 and now I don't need the external transformer. (Inverters easily lend themselves to such modifications.)It also came with an external TA Sloper box but I don't have the cable for it. Now if I could only find the external pulser I'd be happy. I know the later units had it built in, a friend has a Pee Wee GTS 190 with the integral pulser and sloper. Nice little machine.I just about have mine all set up and will be ready to do some arcin and sparkin with it as soon as I get some gas. Btw, I'll be in Albany next week. I used to live in Corvallis and miss that area very much...Last edited by duat; 04-08-2004 at 07:23 PM.
Reply:If you still live in the Northwest I would buy the 92cf size or the 155cf size. There are too many rental 125cf size cylinders in our market and it's too easy to get a mix up and headaches. The 92/155 have traditionally be owner tanks. This might not be the same in other parts of the US.Just have them exchange the cylinder for another. You could custom paint YOUR cylinder and have it sent to a refill station, but then you've got wait for it to come back. This may take a while. I have noticed some suppliers can be real asses about this.Don't worry about the hydrotest on the cylinders that you exchange. As long as you keep refilling them at the same supplier they won't worry about it. (Don't take off the sticky label that has thier name on it. That tells them they refilled it last). The 250 GTSW was one of the first AC inverter TIG machines marketed in the USA. Your's was made in Japan, not FOR Japan. After T/D designed it, they sent out the bids to build it, and Japan won.I'm glad you overcame the input power problem. See that education paid off. :-)The Sloper would be okay if you had repetitive jobs to do....The machine as it stands is a great welder. It is a first generationAC/DC combo inverter and about 8-10 years old now, and since you're an EE, you know how rapidly this equipment evolves.How is your print circuit board repairs skills?
Reply:Thanx for the tips on cylinder size. The guy at AirGas recommended the 155 cf also. There is the weight issue, I don't own a truck. I didn't see a 92 but he mentioned an 80 cf. Same thing? Thats why I was thinking the 125, kind of a compromise on weight and capacity. Guess I'll go with the 155.I was worried if I bought a new cylinder and exchanged it and then went a long tme before another fill I might end up with an out of date hydro on the exchange. So thats not a problem?Interesting info about the 250 GTSW, it all makes sense now. I think it really runs on 415 volt, not 440, but it's a moot point now. How did you solve the input power issue? Are you using an external xformer? If so the fix is easy to do.My electronic and PCB repairs skills are decent and I own some pretty good gear used to do them as I was an industrial maintenace engineer before I gave it up 6 years ago. I'm a professional pilot these days but I can still do that stuff as long as I have schematics. All I have for the 250 is an operating manual. I'd like to get a service manual for it but TA isn't much help.
Reply:Most new cylinders for inert gases are coming with a 10 year hydro... When they exchange them they should give you one with a few years left on it at least.
Reply:Well, I might just be a cynicle old fart, BUT, let me say this about cylinders and hydro dates. Most suppliers are decent honest folks and won't screw you around, but some are a$$holes. When some companys decide they can punch up the bottom line, they have been known to suggest the dock guys give the short date bottles to the weekend warrior weldors, and there just might be a 5 buck reward for every out of date cylinder a wekender brings in.I've seen it happen here, and when the weekender told them to shove it, and threw his cylinder back in his truck, they stood there laughing. A couple weeks later, I took the same cylinder in, and exchanged it without any crap from the dock guy. Preferential treatment happens in the welding supply business.Having typed all this, I'll also say if you aren't going to use the gas within the test date stamped into the cylinder, refuse the short date bottle, and insist on one you will empty within test.Remember, the salesman will tell you anything you want to hear, but there's a lot of fine print on the invoice that really governs the transaction.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:duat: "I didn't see a 92 but he mentioned an 80 cf. Same thing? "Yup. In the 1980"s (If I remember correctly) some physicist figured out that for years we were using the wrong data to calculate the compressablity of gases. So the cf values changed on most cylinders.The common sizes in Oxygen and Argon changed from 80 to 92, 122 to 125, 150 to 155, 275 to 282. So some people call them by the old size, some by the new size. Confused? Yup! Me too.duat:"I was worried if I bought a new cylinder and exchanged it and then went a long tme before another fill I might end up with an out of date hydro on the exchange. So thats not a problem?"It shouldn't be a problem. (but, read Franz's note above) Find a welding supplier you like, and exchange only with them. Hang on to all of you receipts in case of diputes (i.e. a$$holes :-) )duat: re: 250-GTSW "How did you solve the input power issue? "No issue. Mine came as a 230V input machine from the factory. :-) These were built before they started giving us multi-input voltage capability.duat: " I'd like to get a service manual for it but TA isn't much help.Good luck on that. They kept that info back at the NH offices. I think all major repairs were sent back there, or they just sent a whole board to replace.
Reply:Originally Posted by duatSDean:He was running it off a transformer from single phase 220 which derates it a bit. Since I'm an EE it was no problem to open it up and modify it for 220 and now I don't need the external transformer. (Inverters easily lend themselves to such modifications.).
Reply:Talk about bringing a thread back from the dead. I haven't been here in 2 years but the system emailed me your question. Took some doing to log back in.. It seems private messaging has been disabled on this forum so I'll need some way to contact you.Last edited by duat; 03-02-2006 at 09:38 PM.
Reply:Could you send the info to me also? I am also interested in how it's done. I have an old 440 three phase inverter I'd like to try to bring to [email protected] it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:smithboy? *The* smithboy of Metalsculptor slaying fame? Lol, I haven't been on this site in two years but I've spent the last 45 minutes or so browsing around. Sir, I can't promise I'll be able to help with your machine but it'll be my pleasure to try ;-). Standby....
Reply:I am a bit embarrassed to say it, but I guess that's me. Generally, I am very diplomatic and give everyone the benefit of the doubt. It's just that some never realize that the more you demand respect, the less you end up receiving (regardless of talent)...besides, I am becomming suspicious and a bit curious about who (or what) this fellow is and what his motivation is to be here...but about the info request...I am just looking for the general procedures for the welder modification. I have an pre-powcon called a Thermal dynamics powpak 400. It comes in the same case as a powcon, but has vastly different innards...a very rare bird. The folks at TD and at Arc products both thought I was joking when I said I had not one but two of them. They had to dig out dusty boxes to find a copy of a parts diagram for the most similar model. I bought them cheap, really cheap, to learn about inverters but wasn't aware that they were only 3 phase 440 when I got them and that wiring schematics were non-existent. The cables, connectors, diodes and fiberglass cases (that fit a powcon) are all worth more than what I paid for them, so if I cant get them to work...no loss. I had been collecting up stuff to do a phase converter (3p motor, caps and stuff and transformer), but none of the components are large enough to weld with...maybe just enough to get one running at idle. I just thougt I'd give it a whirl and teach myself something in the process.By the way, thanks for the response. I had read this thread almost a year ago, but saw that it was old and figured y'all probably would never come back by...I guess I have to thank MileHighGxr for asking the question. Folks are amused when people respond to threads years old...I guess it never hurts to try....Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:No need to be embarressed as the guy is a total jerk with a serious case of insecurity. No doubt he knows his stuff but that's not the point. Until he learn's how to give back properly, to repay those who took the time, patience, and effort to teach him, he's worthless to anyone but himself. Frankly, his self esteem must be in the toilet to even act that way. And who cares about his house, toys, investments, ect? Bid deal. I'll bet I could put him to shame in every one of those categories. Course, I'd never use such a tactic in the first place.I've written you off list. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Reply:But have you seen M.S.'s latest posts? There is hope--------
Reply:I have...and I agree. There is always hope. Maybe he has just been funning with us up till now. I'd get a big laugh if that were the case...and, that's not joke.Duat,got the email and I'm making plans for the weekend. I hope I get to do my imitation of Young Frankenstein...IT'S ALIVE!!!!Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:I can be e-mailed at [email protected]. I'll send you the service manual as soon as i get your address. I guess I'll have to figure out how to recieve notifications of replies to my posts, as I never got a notification.
Reply:DuatYou said "I'll bet I could put him to shame in every one of those categories. Course, I'd never use such a tactic in the first place"What would you like to wager ? Ever read the book by "James F. Lincoln - Incentive Mangement"It's a very good bookI look forward to you building your Kingdom
Reply:...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalSculptorDuatYou said "I'll bet I could put him to shame in every one of those categories. Course, I'd never use such a tactic in the first place"What would you like to wager ? Ever read the book by "James F. Lincoln - Incentive Mangement" It's a very good book I look forward to you building your Kingdom
Reply:Originally Posted by duatOh please. I won't even lower myself to your level other than to say as an airline pilot I make more in 6 months (which is all I work in a year) than you do slaving over a welder for 4 times that long. And I've been doing it for years. Even putting that aside I'm willing to bet your little kingdom doesn't have it's own jet.
Reply:MS talks the talk about his skills but in this country people are compensated not for skill but responsibility. I may not be able to weld like him but I can land a B757 with 200 souls on board at night in weather that'd pucker any sane person up. Am I proud of it and fairly compensated for the responsibility? Yes, but that doesn't make me "better" than anyone else. Plus there always others who do bigger, better, faster, more. I have friends in the tech industry who had net worth's of hundreds of millions by their late 20s for example. All are the nicest guys you'd ever meet. MS has a lot to learn and it doesn't have anything to do with wealth or toys.Duat,Funny story...well, it probably will be for you....wasnt for me. I hate to fly, but had to a couple of years ago to San Antonio. It was the first time in years and I thought I was getting over my fear...that is until the plane, while landing, made a hard bank over what looked like a huge hole in the ground (I think it might be some sort of mine). Well, it was completely unexpected to me and so was the "OHHHH SHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTT!!!" than came out of my mouth. Everybody else was probably from San Antonio, because they all got a big laugh...I laughed also...when the plane stopped. The pilot, as I passed him, said that it happens all the time...the final approach is a bit scary there....I think he was just trying to make me feel better about making a fool of myself...I was just glad to be on the ground. I suspect they put a note on my flying record for the return trip, because the flight attendants seemed to be being overly nice just to me.I have flown several times since and things are getting a bit better every time...but, If you have someone on one of your planes that screams during landing and he has a bad southern accent...yep...it's probably smithboy.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Sorry, we can't hear any screaming up front but don't worry. I know it's little comfort but only humans equate level flight with safety. The airplane doesn't care and the flight crew is certainly not going to do anything to hurt themselves. As the saying goes, we're always the first to arrive at the scene of an accident Good luck with the welder and if you need anything else you know where to find me.
Reply:Hey DUAT, do you still have the plans for converting the 250GTSW 460v to 220V? If so could you email them to me? Are you still in the NW area?Thanks,pnwcustoms
Reply:Another question in the thread from the dead. Again, it's been a long time since I was here but the system emailed me about your message. I've responded via PM. Hope everybody here is doing well....Last edited by duat; 01-20-2007 at 02:01 AM.
Reply:Ok, so it's been 2 yrs, and no other posts. Time revive a dead thread, again I've managed to lose both my operators, and service manuals for my Thermal Arc 250 GTSW, that I was going to rewire for 220 single phase from 460 3 phase. If anyone has these that they can e-mail me that would be great. I know I sent copies of one of them out at one point, but, I can't find mine now. I had a buyer for it, and because I couldn't show how to rewire it, I lost the sale |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:50:32