Welding silly aluminum pipe not so good

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So a friend of mine came by today and asked if I could weld up a pipe for his car out of aluminum so I said sure as I had a few pieces sitting around. Got them off ebay and can't remember from where. I had a total of 4 pipes, 2 were dull and 2 were really polished.Was playing around on some scrap pieces I had first and welds were good. Cut a small section off of the pipe that was polished and tried to get a bead going, no luck.So I sat there for awhile with a bottle of acetone, brand new wire brush and cleaned the piss out of it. Still wouldn't weld, it would just kind of "cave in" and be kind of stickey. Couldn't get a bead at all. I took knotted wire wheel to it and it cleaned it up a lot better but still looked like complete crap.Tried it on the other pipes that I had that was dull and didn't even clean them and I got great looking welds. Sorry no pics as my phone is acting up at the moment. So aluminum that is polished already or has some odd coating on it, what can I do to clean this? It's about 2mm thick and I had my welder set to 90-100 and I could literally blast it for a full 3-4 seconds and it wouldn't even burn a hole in it. I have lots of other scrap with this finish to play around with so any other ideas to clean this would be great.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Are you sure the shiny stuff is not aluminized steel? Did you check it with a magnet?Visit Tensaiteki.com
Reply:Yep, it's all aluminum.here is a scrap pieceTorchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleYep, it's all aluminum.here is a scrap piece
Reply:Keep in mind not all alum alloys are weldable..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Run some beads on the pipe and not a joint and see what you get.   Looks alot like what I used to get when I had bad gas.  I know it shouldn't matter, but my beads on flat plate looked ok with bad gas, but my joints were impossible with it.   It does look coated.  Could it be on both sides?  Did you try cleaning the inside too?Interesting.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Looks like it might be hard anodized.  Buy some new griding discs, specifically silicon carbide or zirconia. Aluminum oxide grinding discs are counterproductive. You can also use zirconia flap discs or sanding wheels. Those work well.If you accidentally dip your tungsten, clean it off.
Reply:alot of the craps you get off ebay that is "polished" is plated. so youll have to remove the outer coating first before welding.Miller bobcat 225g  - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:Wouldn't surprise me if it was anodized, which would build up the oxide layer much thicker than normal. So you get not puddle, no puddle, no puddle, then BAM it just falls through. Sort of like if you were trying to weld it in DCEN. Grinder 'er down and try again!
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWKeep in mind not all alum alloys are weldable.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleWhat's the difference between anodized and hard anodized?
Reply:Not hard anodized.Simply anodized tube/pipe.Much has been written about how to handle anodized tube, from bump welding it to removing the anodizing.  A search will give you all you need to know.The Diversion does not have the output power to create the "arc force" used in bump welding to "blast" the anodized layer.Your best bet is to try to remove the oxide layer by grinding with a carbide burr or file.  A SS wire wheel will just "smear" the oxides into the base metal.  Sanding is a distant third choice, as that may leave (depending on the sanding material used) it's own set of impurities in the base metal.As mentioned, a search on "welding anodized aluminum" will tell you everything you need to know.Some posters have posted up their "homebrew solutions" for chemically removing the oxides, but I haven't used them so I can't comment.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:On these ebay aluminum pipes I have found that 00 steel wool works best to clean the area to be welded.Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller Spectrum 250DMiller Millermatic 200Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....
Reply:Steel wool is about THE LAST thing I'd recommend for cleaning anodizing off tube.  It would be right behind using a rusty steel wire brush.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Sundown, what do you recommend since everyone else is wrong? If I search and people suggest wrong things then I'm nowhere ahead.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Oh hail the mighty sundownIVXIVMCXL!Serious guy?OO steel wool out of the package followed up by a wipe of acetone works wondersMiller Dynasty 200DXMiller Spectrum 250DMiller Millermatic 200Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....
Reply:Id hit it with a 120 grit tiger paw, followed by a healthy dose of acetone.  This has never failed me, even on the most salt saturated, navy stantion pipe hand railing.Last edited by usmcruz; 05-31-2012 at 05:57 PM.
Reply:Gamble,Did you do a search on "welding anodized aluminum"?I can already tell that you didn't.  You also seem to have a problem with "reading comprehension" since I already mentioned a couple of recommendations in my previous post.  A stainless wire wheel generates too much heat and smears the oxides, whereas a SS brush will remove the oxides, but for anodized tube/pipe, the oxides are much thicker and require an excessive amount of brushing.  A burr or file with cut thru the oxides quickly.As Cruz has pointed out, a flap disc will also remove the oxide layer, but, depending on the type of grit, may imbed it's own set of problems.  Your LWS should be able to get flap discs or grinding wheels designed for aluminum.Jon,From your response, I have to question if you've ever welded anodized tube/pipe.  Not only is steel wool not aggressive enough to remove the anodized layer, but it will also imbed microscopic particles of STEEL in the softer aluminum.  Wiping with acetone will not remove these particles.  This is the exact reason mild steel wire brushes are not used to remove the "normal" (non anodized) oxide layer that forms on aluminum.  To further reinforce this position, take you steel wool (or a mild steel brush) and aggresively brush a section of SS tube.  Then put it out in the weather.  The area that was brushed will rust, whereas the untouched area will maintain it's corrosion resistance.I work with anodized aluminum (marine use) all the time, but I don't buy my material on e-bay.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by jontheturboguyOn these ebay aluminum pipes I have found that 00 steel wool works best to clean the area to be welded.
Reply:Ebay aluminum is junk! I refuse to weld any ebay aluminum that anyone brings me. They ask for some welding, I ask where they got the pipe from, they reply ebay, I laugh.People always think they can save money by getting the materials themselves because, well, look how cheap it is on ebay!I do make quite a nice chunk on ebay exhausts! Everyone that buys an ebay exhaust always brings it to me to get "refitted". In the end spending as much as if they just brought it to me in the first place and having an exhaust made.
Reply:I use eBay aluminum tubing all the time.  I've never had a problem with it.  I stainless brush the area, clean with acetone, then weld with 4043.   1/16" filler at about 150-160a. 3/32" yellow tungsten.Sent from my iPhone via tapatalkChuck Norris was born in a log cabin that he built with his own bare hands.
Reply:whoa pardner, that makes too much sense,  no way some of the retards on this thread will buy into that simply explained procedure.
Reply:burrs:  got to have em.i keep several of the carbidebur.com burrs on the truck,  they really peel of the al.http://www.carbidebur.com/nfburs/nfall.htm Attached ImagesLast edited by fdcmiami; 06-01-2012 at 09:15 PM.
Reply:fdc,When you're working with aluminum, burrs are like clamps.  You can never have too many.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I'll be honest, I've never used one. Is there a specific one you recommend? What is each different shape do?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal DealerThe different shapes are to help gain access to areas that suit a particular shape. You can get small carbide burrs for Dremel tools. I have a favorite bit for the Dremel that eats through stainless like it wasn't there.PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Here is a good guide on different burs and applications.http://www.pferdusa.com/info/PDF/202_USA_2011.pdfShapes are important to get the requires cut/shape you need, but probably not as important as flute type for different metals.  Also speed of metal removal and finish are affected by flute design.
Reply:You'll also find that a burr is the fastest way of knocking off the oxides along the edge of a plasma cut piece of aluminum.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:The slivers created by a burr are VERY sharp and very small. Also a burr in a high speed tool like a die grinder can be very dangerous if you get careless and extremely unforgiving. If you think someone with a grinder less a guard gets messed up, a die grinder with a carbide burr will be very ugly. ( they cut steel/ alum like butter in many cases,  so something like a leather jacket really won't slow them down much and they really don't get choked like a grinder can in your clothes. ) Good PPE is very important  because of the slivers and this is one of those tools that requires your complete undivided attention while running..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Alluminum slivers from a carbide bit suck a$$!!  Always hated taking a burr bit to alluminum.
Reply:I've had steel slivers from a burr go right through my tig glove and into my finger when I grabbed my mirror holder by the magnet they are extremely sharp :[