how much gas do you go through?

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I was wondering how much gas is normal to go through in a day of welding. i have a millermatic 250; im running .030 wire with Ar/C02 gas, the gas is set to about 20 psi (as per the welding shops advice). the problem is i seem to be going through a tank of gas every time i turn around to use the welder im out of gas...i only have a small tank (tank is as tall as the welder, i think its 80 cf). if i am welding for the day, on and off for 8 hrs or so ill almost go through a tank of gas...is this normal? or do i have a leak somewhere? i am not very used to the psi on my reg, i have mostly used flow meters and i wasnt changing the tanks very often while i was at school (used a manifold system). any help would be much appreciated as i am so tired of running out of gas i am almost to the point where i just want to sell the wire machine and buy a good stick welder...thanks in advance
Reply:First, your gas is -probably- set to 20 cfh as in 20 cubic feet per hour.So if you have an 80 cf tank, at 20 cfh that means :80 cf / 20 cfh = 4 hours of arc (and gas flow) timeIf you are really welding a lot, you can go through that much gas in a full hard day of welding.Or you have a leak in your line(s) somewhere.  Get out some soapy water and check all you gas connections and fittings.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:I think inert gases like oxy and argon use back-seat valves. If you don't open them all the way, they can leak around the valve packing. If true, I lost a lot of argon over the years.  I don't know where CO2 fits in here.Open to correction.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:I posted something the other day regarding flow meter, the ball type has a needle valve and can use improviing, check through the posts....
Reply:I will take a picture of my gauge and post it up...moonrise i sure hope you're not right because then at means welding sure isnt cheap at $50 a fill....craig i will keeep that in mind as i only ever crack my bottles, will try opening it fully next time
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverI think inert gases like oxy and argon use back-seat valves....
Reply:Originally Posted by yotawheelerI was wondering how much gas is normal to go through in a day of welding. i have a millermatic 250; im running .030 wire with Ar/C02 gas, the gas is set to about 20 psi (as per the welding shops advice). the problem is i seem to be going through a tank of gas every time i turn around to use the welder im out of gas...i only have a small tank (tank is as tall as the welder, i think its 80 cf). if i am welding for the day, on and off for 8 hrs or so ill almost go through a tank of gas...is this normal? or do i have a leak somewhere? i am not very used to the psi on my reg, i have mostly used flow meters and i wasnt changing the tanks very often while i was at school (used a manifold system). any help would be much appreciated as i am so tired of running out of gas i am almost to the point where i just want to sell the wire machine and buy a good stick welder...thanks in advance
Reply:Ya, thats very possible with a small bottle like that.  I bet switching to a larger tank will be cheaper in the long run.  I know if we are doing alot of purged work with our miller 250sync we can run through a cyl. of argon in less than a week.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:i will check my gas assy next time i have a full bottle to work with (which will be pretty soon). also i know that this is a very small bottle...however the welding shops in my area are kinda of a pita as that is the LARGEST bottle i can purchase outright, i did not want a lease on the bottle because there are times where i wont use my welder for 2 months....or however long so i wanted to have a customer owned bottle. but the gist of it is i guess that im not going through such an outragous amount of gas....if im doing alot of welding in a day or over a weekend...its not unreasonable to go through a tank of gas that fast.....ill still check for leaks. thanks guys!
Reply:From your post I am assuming you are using the flow devise that came with the machine.  If you are, it is a flowgauge.  It messures in cfh also, but does not a have a meter with a floating ball.  Ask your supplier what size your tank is, then divide that by 20 to get the number of hours of arc-on-time you have in each tank.  You can check for leaks on all of your connection between the welding machine and the cylinder valve.  Not all argon cylinders need to be opened all the way but it would not hurt if you made it a regular practice.  One big waste of shielding gas that most welders do not know about is the amount of gas used in the first few second of each weld, called a gas surge.   Flowmeters and flowgauges deliver gas at a giving pressure, the soleniod on the machine is closed,when you are not actually welding, the hose pressure builds until it is the same as the delivery pressure of the flowmeter or the flowgauge.  Then, when you start to weld again, all of that stored pressure in the gas hose "surges" out of the end of gun.  I have seen flowrates as high as 255cfh  that last for  4 or 5 seconds.  If you are doing alot of short welds, or have an long gas hose, the effect is greatly increased.  I have seen manufacturer facilities cut their gas use by 30-40% by installing surge protector.  This may be something you want to check out.   Also, if you use a flowmeter, you can see if you have any leaks, because the ball will float if any gas is leaking out of the system.  If it is small leak it will sometimes bounce.Hope this has been helpful.OAdoctorwww.regulatortorchrepair.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MAC702It has nothing to do with whether the gas is inert (and oxygen is most certainly NOT inert), but rather if it is stored in relative high pressure.So yes, oxygen and argon are high pressure cylinders with back-seating valves, but acetylene and CO2 are not
Reply:20cfh is a bit high if your indoors.  Unless you like to buy gas.  I rarely have mine set above 12cfh.
Reply:im always welding out doors...i have no indoor workspace but am allowed to store my welding stuff in the old mans carpentry shop...i will try knocking down the flow rate,
Reply:Yeah, outdoors you'll need a higher flow rate.
Reply:Honestly, when I weld outdoors I almost exclusively use flux-core. For some reason it gets a bad rap, and some people say it's more expensive long term, and it might be, but it doesn't run out on you when you forget to close the tank or have a leak or etc...Maybe due to this, I find I can go a long long time on my 40cf tank. But I try to run as little flow as possible and when using gas I'm always indoors. I'm sure that makes a difference.
Reply:Most people use way to much gas, best way to do it is cut the flow down until you see a noticeable difference in weld splater and color, their are tow types of meters in use the new like your acetelyne dual stage and the ball type flow meter, in the older type meters if you are welding where you frequently start and stop or spot weld you are wasting alot of gas, because the old type did not restrict the flow, large hose diameters(cheap to fix). I was abit shocked when I found out what I thought was a good system(ball type) was wasting.What you want to do is try keep your pressure low?Their is more info here:http://www.netwelding.com/improving_start_quality.htm