Pipe Fence Posts- Saddled or Crimped?

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I'm planning about 600' of pipe fence, either 2" or 2-3/8", with a single top rail, and I'm trying to decide whether to cut saddles in the tops of the posts or crimp the tops of the posts. I plan to set the 60+ posts in concrete and then cut them to height so either way it will be done in the field, not in the shop. I've read through the archives but can't find a good description of how to squeeze the post tops in the field after they are set. Someone mentioned suspending a vice from a truck mounted hoist but the description wasn't very clear. Is it practical to crimp the post tops in the field and get consistent, uniform crimps? How hard is it to make sure the crimps run parallel with the fence row and are not angled so that the top rail doesn't sit squarely on top? Can the angle be adjusted afterwards, say by reheating and twisting with a wrench?I'm thinking I can suspend my vice from the bucket of my front loader, heat the post with a rosebud and squeeze it to about 1/2" but how do I make sure each post is uniform? Is there an easy way to position the vice at the same height on each post? I'll have a helper, (or I should say I'll be the helper. My friend is a much better welder than I am). Or can it just be done with 2 hammers, without the vice?Considering pros and cons, is crimping faster or easier than cutting saddles? (I've been looking at the Shur-Kut templates.) With crimps all welding would be upside down but also mostly out of sight. This is a dog enclosure and crimps would allow less chance of injury on a rough weld without having to grind.Any thoughts or advice is much appreciated!
Reply:If were me, I'd opt for coping. Looks better and fairly easy to do with O/A in the field. We made a jig outta 2 1/2" pipe to slide over the 2" and that was our cope jig. Used about 6" of 2 1/2" pipe (coped) and a 1/2" nut welded to the side with a t-handle bolt to lock it on the post.
Reply:http://www.wagnercompanies.com/coped_connectors.aspxthere's other mfg out there.  why do something the hard way when there's an easy way.
Reply:What's the outside diameter of top rail ? Top rail and riser same size right ? Depending on how fussy you are, cut short piece of maybe 2''  "C" channel that will cradle top rail and weld sides. Then just set bottom of channel on top of riser. No saddle or crimp required.
Reply:Posts and rail will be the same diameter, either 2 or 2-3/8" OD. I had not thought about the channel. Good idea.I would like to hear from someone who has field crimped the posts just so I can better visualize it.Thanks for the helpful suggestions.
Reply:Originally Posted by fdcmiamihttp://www.wagnercompanies.com/coped_connectors.aspxthere's other mfg out there.  why do something the hard way when there's an easy way.
Reply:I did all my fencing using a cold squeeze method. I did all the horizontal bars though, and left the posts higher than the horizontals. My squeezer is made from a small shop press. I don't think it would work well if used to on pre set posts, as it uses a hydraulic jack that should be vertical in use. You would likely need to make a squeezer out of a cheap porta power type hand pump and small piston. You might consider pre cutting, or squeezing, and just set your posts at the right height. It is not that difficult to do.
Reply:You might make a small hand carried press using a bottle jack.  Make sure your bottle jack will pump when laying on it's side or back since you'll need it in this position.  You might overfill the fluid to ensure this.  You'll only need maybe 1" of travel so the reservior shouldn't get low.  "I don't expect any problems".  Of course whenever I say that it usually goes all to hell shortly thereafter.If that 2-3/8" is drill stem, good luck getting it to crimp without LOTS of force (20 or 50 ton bottle jack?).  I doubt you'd be able to do this with a vise.  You may also have them shoot out of a press when they get partially crimped and have some wedge shape.  If you're using thin wall you could probably use a vise, or a lightweight bottle jack.I'd say cutting saddles with a torch takes more time, but is less physical labor.  Do you call that "easier"?Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:Posts and rail will be the same diameter, either 2 or 2-3/8" OD. I had not thought about the channel. Good idea.I would like to hear from someone who has field crimped the posts just so I can better visualize it.Thanks for the helpful suggestions.
Reply:I have never done notching in the field but what about making a base for one of these and just using a good 1/2 drill corded drill?  it would clamp to your verticals toohttp://www.harborfreight.com/pipe-tu...her-42324.htmlTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Very easy to cut saddles.  Use a guide.  These are commonly available at your LWS, and they're pretty cheap.Used the guide to cut saddles when I had to build some good watergaps a few years back."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by fdcmiamihttp://www.wagnercompanies.com/coped_connectors.aspxthere's other mfg out there.  why do something the hard way when there's an easy way.
Reply:It sounds like squeezing the post tops in the field isn't very practical, especially if I use sch. 40 pipe. I like BD1's idea of using a piece of channel as a cradle but since I have to cut the posts to height anyway it isn't that much more involved to just cut a saddle at the same time, especially with a Shur-Kut: http://www.shurkut.net/ I figure by the time I finish practicing on 59 posts that 60th one will be a breeze!Thanks for the advice.
Reply:saddles look more professionalVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Mash the pipe flat? That's for rank *** beginners and looks ratty. Just cut the saddles, only takes a minute. Forget the channel as well. You still have to cut the pipe flat for the channel to sit on. You could have cut the saddle in the same amount of time and you won't have to buy channel and the channel will mean two welds. After a hundred saddles or so you will be fast at it.
Reply:You said it is a dog enclosure but didn't say chain link anywhere.  I put a picture of a dog enclosure we have noting that storms can make branches from trees fall and damage things.  The slip over the top fittings would make things a lot easier to repair I would think.Genereally the welding is on the gates and the rest is little cast fittings and soft aluminum wire.  I would think the way would be to cut it off with a pipe cutter and then use a notching device with the proper die to cut out the saddle in two seperate chomps.  I once ended up with a few of the dies but not the thing to put them in, have no idea where they are now.  Eventually I stopped cutting the pipe off after set and use a long 2x4 on the ground and a single piece from the chain link as a guage.  There are different grades of the piping, four I think.At least for chain link in the five or six foot high the terminal posts are usually called 2 1/2 but really 2 3/8 od.  The line posts are called 2 but really 1 7/8 and the top pipe is either 1 3/8 (shown) or 1 5/8.If none of the above is of any use perhaps consider this.  When  you go to fill the hole with the pipe and the concrete, when you get up near ground level make a tar paper cylinder with a piece of tar paper and a welding rod or some nails as stitches and use that to come up to grade so there isn't a funnel like structure for the frost to heave. Attached Images
Reply:cut the saddles with a torch in the field. it only takes a minute per post. and looks a whole lot more professional.MM 251MM 135Lincoln Pro cut 55Bobcat 250Miller Thunderbolt ac/dcolder ac forneyJackson nexgen 3n13-Smith OP setups97 Dodge dieselMakita chopsawJet swivel head bandsawlincoln tig 300/30030a spoolgunpuma port. gas air comp.
Reply:you're right there but he would know that if he knew how to use a torch.   as a matter of fact i don't think he knows the difference between pipe and tube.   why doesn't he just let the welder decide.  the suggestion in the earlier post about the coping tool that can be fastened in place using a bolt is a good onewonder how he's going to connect the tube/pipe joints?   CL of cope?  random?   i'm wondering about the 10 foot of span between posts.he can download a pattern,  learn to use parallel line dev and do a flat pattern.  layout the stretchout on paper and free hand the pattern.  they make tap ins for guys like this.  a few bucks will seem cheap after a coping, grinding and fitting a few posts.i really like the idea of suspending a vice from the bucket of the front end loader;   let's get a crane out there too.  lolLast edited by fdcmiami; 07-17-2012 at 06:33 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by fdcmiamiyou're right there but he would know that if he knew how to use a torch.   as a matter of fact i don't think he knows the difference between pipe and tube.   why doesn't he just let the welder decide.  the suggestion in the earlier post about the coping tool that can be fastened in place using a bolt is a good onewonder how he's going to connect the tube/pipe joints?   CL of cope?  random?   i'm wondering about the 10 foot of span between posts.he can download a pattern,  learn to use parallel line dev and do a flat pattern.  layout the stretchout on paper and free hand the pattern.  they make tap ins for guys like this.  a few bucks will seem cheap after a coping, grinding and fitting a few posts.i really like the idea of suspending a vice from the bucket of the front end loader;   let's get a crane out there too.  lol
Reply:My post may not have been too friendly but it contains a lot more info than yours.read it closely.
Reply:I fail to see where i offered anything in the way of constructive information to himI thought that he was getting a real abundance of help  I have just been reading the thread with interest and learning some thingsI don't comment on things i don't have knowledge of or that i have nothing of real worth to contribute or if it has already been pointed outI'm not on this forum to stroke my ego if i can help someone i doAnd i can be critical too when i think it's warrantedBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Buy the template like Farmersamm shows above (LWS here carries a couple variations) mark with soapstone, cut with torch.If you don't have alot of experience with a torch then check your fit with a short length of pipe layed up there, trim a little, check fit again, etc.  While the cut is still hot you can "massage" the ragged edges with a BFH.After the first 5 you'll have the hang of it and be marking and cutting a post every couple minutes.I only remember 1 fence with the "smashed" tubes and I didn't like the way it looked...cheap or something.
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11When the guy asks for suggestions and information about a project he wants to do You want to give him harsh criticism and mock him That ain't rightThis forum is here to help and inform people We save that for the guys who buy cheap crap welding machines and tell us about the trailer / hitch he is building or the rusted truck frame he is pasting together  out of tin and seagull  squeezing's as there first welding project Enough said
Reply:Wow that's the nicest thing that has been said to me latelyMy Ex parole officer called me a violent sociopathEh go figureBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by fdcmiamiwonder how he's going to connect the tube/pipe joints?   CL of cope?  random?   i'm wondering about the 10 foot of span between posts.