How Much Should I Pay for a Used Diversion 180

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Hi all:I am a newbie.  I have been oxy welding, mig and stick welding for many years.  Now I have some projects and want to get invloved in TIG welding.  I believe that the machine that I should get is a Miller Diversion 180.  I would love to hear your comments on whether this is the right machine as far as features, reliability and price.  My intention is to use this machine for a bunch of automotive steel, aluminum and stainless projects including custom aluminum valve covers, coolant overflow, floor pan repair and stainless headers from scratch.I have found a used Diversion 180 with the following items:*- welder*- peddle for torch*- gas regulator*- Arg bottle (80ft3)*- Welder cart*- Rod*- TIG torchThe Div 180 is supposed to be one year old with 20 hours on it and in excellent condition (have not seen it yet).  The seller is asking $1600 including the above and some extra rod.  I have a couple questions as follows:1.) How do you determine the number of hours on a Div 180 (is there a function that will tell me this);2.)  What is a fair price for me to offer;3.) Should I try to skinny the price down by not buying the Ar bottle (I can lease a bottle for $6/month with $225 deposit).4,) Seller has agreed to let me try the unit out before I buy it, what should I be looking for?The assistance and wisdom of this group is greatly appreciated.
Reply:Come with a helmet?I have this machine and there is no way to determine the amount of hours.Depends on the price of argon tanks by you. By me the 80cf tank is $165 lifetime lease. So if that is what is by you I would say $1600 is an ok price. I mean it's not a fantastic price.Here is' $1770 newhttp://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...n+180&_sacat=0If you can get it for 1400 or 1500 that would be a decent price I think. Make sure it comes with the 220v plug also.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:$1600 doesn't sound all that great to me even with the cylinder. I've seen much better machines for less money. $900-1400 is typically the price range I see for Syncrowave 180's and 200's. More machine with more adjustments and options, for less money... You do the math.Personally the Diversions are underpowered for aluminum and you give up way too much for the small drop in price. If you are looking at the diversion because it's 110v capable, note that it's pretty much useless on alum  and fairly limited on steel on 110v. To really utilize the machine, you need to run it on 230v power. At that point I'd pony up the extra couple hundred for a new Syncrowave 200 if nothing else..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:^^agreed. I used a syncrowave 180 and if it had the ability to do 110v, well I would own one already.I love how I can use mine on dual voltage but if you are using a 230v then go with a better machine. The duty cycle on the diversion is a little low as well.Also a member on here, chimmike got a new hobart 165 (only 230v) and it came with a foot pedal. I think those are 1200 new and it's only 15amps less. That may be another option. Either way research and don't rush the decision.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Yes, $1600 is too much for a used Diversion180. Especially if you don't know how to use it and don't know whether it works right or not. At least new you have the 3 year warranty. $1200 is more like it. You have to take the Diversion Series welders for what they are. EASY! That does not always translate to power or duty cycle.I am not a transformer enthusiast, but if it floats you boat, go for it.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:$1200 max.  No matter how low the use, they lose value as soon as you get them new.  As DSW says, used other models may be a better deal.  About a year and a half ago I got a lightly used Square Wave 175 with 2 80 cu ft bottles, gauges, stinger, pedal, WP9 with parts, etc for a grand.  With a cart built like a tank.  That I gutted for other projects.  Depending on where you are, it will take some looking.  Took me a few months to get the right deal.  A lot of guys think because they didn't use it much that they can sell it for a couple hundred under new.Enough stuff to build and repair wrinkled up race cars or bring a classic back to life...
Reply:I'm in the $1200 group. For $300 more, you can likely find a used TA185 Arcmaster which is still an inverter with many more features and a higher duty cycle.  The Diversion has fixed AC balance and frequency and cannot do Stick.  Also, the diversion has a torch that's attached internally requiring alot of work and or adapters to change over to water cooled.  The TA has standard output lugs I bought my barely used Synchro 250 for $1600.  That's ALOT more machine.  You can buy a new 88cf Ar tank on ebay for around $120.  Used for $50-75.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum