Mig like Tig...

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I was going to buy a tig welder for welding up a tube chassis... I saw how well one of the fabricators I work with could mig and make it look like tig and how fast he could go through all the welds... so I bought the same welder he had and started to give it a shot. I got a millermatic  251 (fun installing 50a circuit) and can weld some clean downhill smooth welds but when I try to make it look like dimes I get a lot of splatter and have a tough time gapping the welds cause it gets hot... I read through some posts and have tried circular motion and that just makes the beads smooth, I then tried moving the tip and gapping the spacing leaving the gun on.... and also tried start stopping it. Gapping seemed to work ok but didn't look very clean, and start stop was consistent but had a lot more spatter. Hopefully someone here can offer me some good advise. I attached some pics to show my progress. The first was gapping it and the 2nd was start stop. Attached Images
Reply:It's spattering because you are doing a series of starts and stops.  You aren't getting an established puddle.  If you are looking for the stack of dimes you should look into a TIG setup.  A good MIG weld should be smooth, straight and consistent in exception to a weave.  Think mustard.  Squirt a straight line out on your hotdog and try to mimmick it except flatter.If that stack of dimes means that much to you then go TIG.MIG welds should like like thispicture from Hobart on what a good MIG weld should look like.Or in the case of a fillet weldOr if you are doing a weave like thisLast edited by WelderBoy; 08-15-2007 at 01:11 AM.
Reply:I understand that but I have seen some that look woven or dimes like tig that looked great.
Reply:Originally Posted by idealerI understand that but I have seen some that look woven or dimes like tig that looked great.
Reply:Strong first.  If you want it to look like tig, then use a tig. Nice attempts.  A couple of real experienced guys can accomplish what you are trying, but it takes time.This is as close as I can come.  These were horizontal welds.  My weave pattern is small circles, The look just comes out that way, I don't try.  I don't care either, the pic was taken because the top weld is 25 feet long.WFS 330 of .035, about 20 volts C/25.  This is 3/16" square tubing so there is a natural perfect fit up. I  should have been at around 200 amps. Attached ImagesLast edited by David R; 08-15-2007 at 06:28 AM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:David,  Are those welds shown after cleaning them with a wire brush?  Or is that achieved with the correct set-up/gas/wire?   They sure look clean.
Reply:Looks like he wire wheeled them from looking at the rust markings around it.
Reply:Something like this? I only did this cuz it was an exposed saddle and at the customers request. This is not required for a good weld. Attached Images
Reply:TEK, looks good.  The bluing of the steel really shows how the heat builds up as you move along.
Reply:Frst, those are some real good MiG weld guys!I have yet to see a continuous MiG weld that looks like it was done with TiG.I have seen many try by overlapping a bunch of tack welds. The tack, tack, tack, method will result in a very poor MiG weld most of the time.  Some try different weave patterns, and some look really good, but all are easily identified as MiG.Here is one of my TiG welds on steel:Anyone who can make a proper MiG weld look like that is pretty damn good!I have yet to see it.
Reply:TSOR - check out some of ZTfabs post, he uses MIG very well. Here is a sample of one of my MIG welds, done in the above mentioned fashion: It's okay but still not as good as master paul-s'an. John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:This was "the other shops" weld: John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneThis was "the other shops" weld:
Reply:Well....then.....you went from a bad weldor to a good weldor overnight! John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Here's a couple of gems Attached Images
Reply:Here's a couple of pics I dug up...A lot of the look comes from being consistent and getting the settings and your hand speed dialed in.All of my MIG is done continuously, no pulsing.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:A couple more...http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Let me know if you have any questions about any particular pics....- Paulhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Originally Posted by TSORHere's a couple of gems
Reply:Paul - You are the "MIG MASTER"!  You are a machine, nice work man.Hobart 140 Handler w/ gasHyperTherm Powermax 380 Plasmaoxy/acetylene
Reply:Beautiful work, consistency is remarkable. Do you use about an 1/8 inch straight whip motion ?Last edited by olddad; 08-15-2007 at 01:34 PM.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabTack, tack, tack equals Crack, crack, crack!!!- Paul
Reply:Paul,Are all those parts shown in carbon steel?Is the machine set for anythng special, like a pulse setting?Do you do anything special while welding, like a circular motion, or is it a constant feed? What is your method?The welds look great and I'd love to be able to get that with my MIG on Stainless.
Reply:Don't let him fool you - his MIG gun is attached on a stepper motor with CNC!  John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Thanks for the compliments guys. I use a circular motion with a slow hand speed and adjust the welder accordingly. I always weld continuously, NO PULSING and none of my welders even have options for pulsing or stitch welding.All of the pics I posted are on carbon steel. I've never MIG welded Alu. or SS...I use TIG for that. Idealer, if you are getting too much spatter, try turning your voltage down or your wire speed up a bit. That should take care of it.Try being consistent before you worry about getting a particular look. Getting the basics of settings and consistency down will allow you to work on the look later.- PaulLast edited by ZTFab; 08-15-2007 at 01:36 PM.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessoriesOriginally Posted by MicroZoneDon't let him fool you - his MIG gun is attached on a stepper motor with CNC!
Reply:I said to you, "Paul, if you don't pay me the agreed $100 per week friendship fee, I will tell your MIG secrets." ...so there you go. PFFFT ! John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:ZTFab,really beautiful weld appearance, looks like a pulsed machine weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneI said to you, "Paul, if you don't pay me the agreed $100 per week friendship fee, I will tell your MIG secrets." ...so there you go. PFFFT !
Reply:What happened to grace periods?
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThey still exist..At 200% every minute......zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabHoly Crap!!Should I expect a horse's head in my bed in the morning, too?  - Paul
Reply:Tough act to follow Paul.  Here is another of the same job not cleaned up with a wire wheel.This is a few inches of 200' of weld.  All the  same stuff.  1.5" square tubing 3/16 wall. Horizontal.Davidedit.  The welder was RED.......Snap On  David Attached ImagesLast edited by David R; 08-15-2007 at 09:28 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:WoW Paul you consistincy is, well WOW.  Even around curves and corners no change.My hat is off to you!
Reply:Originally Posted by Me!WoW Paul you consistincy is, well WOW.  Even around curves and corners no change.My hat is off to you!
Reply:I have seen Paul do these "first hand". He makes it look so simple...even a caveman can do it."Common sense is not very common"http://www.tahoekeyshome.com
Reply:Originally Posted by brucebI have seen Paul do these "first hand". He makes it look so simple...even a caveman can do it.
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneThis was "the other shops" weld:
Reply:Looks like it got the "Midas" touch! typical weld coming out of most muffler repair chains.
Reply:a great work , u are a great welder
Reply:impressive welds, especially when reading that this was all done with a mig.Great Job Paul!
Reply:Originally Posted by TSORLooks like it got the "Midas" touch! typical weld coming out of most muffler repair chains.
Reply:wow, that is some beautiful welding. Wish I could get that consistency! Hows the strength?
Reply:Originally Posted by ca180wow, that is some beautiful welding. Wish I could get that consistency! Hows the strength?
Reply:What some of you guys don't know is just exactly how ZTFab makes such consistent welds.  It took me weeks of snooping around outside his house when I finally was able to snap a picture and unfold the mystery. Attached ImagesMillermatic 25115" Rockwell Drill Press10" Logan Lathe5hp - 2-stage 80 Gallon CompressorHome Made Sand / Soda Blaster
Reply:[QUOTE=ZTFab]Let me know if you have any questions about any particular pics....I have a question...How the heck do you do it with ZERO spatter?. When I first saw the pics of the rear end reinforcements you were doing for the 4wd customer, I would've bet my paycheck (which isn't much ) that those were tig welds. I think the total lack of spatter and slag as well as the beautiful beads make it look so much like tig. And probably 1/4 of the time it would've taken to tig it. So what's the secret? It can't be anti-spatter spray alone. There is not one speck of spatter!
Reply:MIG welds and TIG welds... Attached ImagesBeauty in the Bead!
Reply:Mmm, mmm, mmm. I must say, that is theeee worst welding I have ever seen in my life. Burrrrrp! Oh, I mean last night's tig class, I just don't get it.Nice mig work, can I have all your secrets? City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:holy crap! Awesome welds....my question is to Paul (ZTFab), what would your settings and wire size be if you were welding 1/8 material, butt and fillet.what voltage?what wire speed?what gas pressure?what wire dia?cheers, Serg
Reply:In a truly fair world, you guys would be punished for making me feel so bad. Them 'r some awesome welds. I salute you. In case you see this: How did you weld that 3' x 4' (?) flat tank without warpage? It looks like the beads were almost a foot long. What gauge was used? If it's used for liquids, about how many 'patches' are needed after pressure checking? Would TIG be used for the patches?And, in your make believe world, do you use MIG for roll cage work?CraigLast edited by Craig in Denver; 06-21-2008 at 02:52 PM.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250