6010 rod - drag or push?

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Is there a significant difference in the quality of a weld if the rod is pushed instead of dragged? I'm welding 5/8" dia nuts to 1/2" steel with 3/32 6010, and the bead looks "prettier" if I push the rod...........James
Reply:Personally id use an 18 series rod as it would provide a stronger weld as per 6010 would. As far as fillet welding goes with a 6010 do whichever completes a nicer more uniform weld for your particular welding style. I would try a very small whip. Only thing i can forsee with dragging is slag entrapment if you are doing a multi-pass without griding out your wagon tracks. Whipping tends to reduce or even eliminate wagon tracks all together, if done correctly.
Reply:Let's see a photo!Generally you drag stick rod so the flux does not get in front of the pool and get trapped.  Vertical up you push slightly, but gravity take care of keeping the slag behind.If pushing works for you and you don't get slag entrapment, then no problem.  Maybe a little less penetration.Pushing spray MIG gives a flatter bead but a little less penetration than dragging it.6013 will give a much smoother bead than 6010.
Reply:Neither.   6010/6011 are whipped & paused, or  you can do small circles.  Whip forward to dig, pause to fill.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:You mean 'push' vs 'pull', not 'drag'. A drag rod is one, like  7024, which has thick flux and can be 'dragged' along the weld, the flux keeping the arc length constant. That doesn't work with 6010 because the rod will short to the work if some gap isn't maintained, (at least with the smaller sizes; I haven't tried 1/4"). Are these hex nuts that are lying flat, or standing on edge so you need to get into the smaller angle? I'd also think another rod type would give a prettier appearance and as strong (or stronger)  a joint, if you don't need to worry about flux in tight corners on short welds.
Reply:I never had cause to pick up E7024 until yesterday. I was asking "What the...?"  That is more slag than I could shake a stick at and every time, slag got trapped in there, (note pic. one). So, I changed directions and dragged it from right to left instead, so I could at least see the leading edge of the puddle. You can see the first attempt from the right on the same plate in pic. one. That got it going (note pic. two). I left the bead too early though. But, I think I could muddle through now.The third pic. is just some 6010 stringers. Pic. four is three 7018 passes. I got a locker full of 6013 passes at school, but no pics of that stuff. Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:With 7024 if you can drag it slightly uphill, I'm not talking much.     The last two or three inches in pic two are on.  If your on a DC machine try running DCEN, even better is if there's an AC machine around grab that and keep the heat up it.I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:have you ever heard this name "citoflex" (6010) ?
Reply:Thanks Wirehunt! I have access to AC, but I have been using a DC machine lately. (Lincoln V350 Pro inverter.)  When they call for us to use AC, I'll likely be using a transformer based machine. Bennett, "Citoflex", no. I am using whatever rod they have put in front of us. I heard they use Hobart 7018, but I couldn't say for sure what any of it is.Tonight I managed a triple pass with 7014, no pic though. I spent most of the night trying to butter up a vertical plate with 6010, it was not pretty! My 2nd attempt showed improvement after a bit of some one on one demonstration by the professor. *WARNING* Graphic steel carnage imagery may not be suitable for the feint of heart!You have been warned. Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:"Angel tears, my friend; I'm sure Whether of sorrow or joy, they must be pure"
Reply:practice your up hill on a slope first (about 60 degrees) to get a feel for running uphill,  master this and then move to complete vertical......just remember always keep your puddle moving and stay in the puddle and youll have no problemspipefitter/welder 7 yrsgeneral foreman 2 yrs working in the fabrication, chemical and petrochemical industry 7 yrsNCCER CERTIFIED-PIPEFITTER, IRONWORKER, WELDER STOP SNITCHING
Reply:When you start using AC you will see why they still make the 7024. You can make a very pretty weld with just a little bit of practice. If I have to use AC the 7024 is what I always use if I can get it.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Neither.   6010/6011 are whipped & paused, or  you can do small circles.  Whip forward to dig, pause to fill.
Reply:I have never understood the "whip"  with 6010 or 6011 I have always given it a slight weave or circles.  With the whip do you whip forward to dig and make a crater and then whip back to put some filler down and then go back forward to fill the crater you have just made?  Or is it always a forward whip?
Reply:I found this problem too, it usually depends on the width of the gap you're trying to fill with the "whip and pause" motion. For larger gaps1/8" plus  I have found the circular motion coupled with the "whip and pause" works great.   Gotta say I love this rod and the 6011 as well. So versatile. No worries like the ones associated with the "low-high" rods.  A little rust, or dirt ?  No problem with the flash freezing rods.  Just got done fixing a side gig, where it would have been impossible withouth these great rodsall I want in my life are....... white castle cheese burgers
Reply:Yes, you whip forward to dig, fall back and pause to fill the crater you just made, then whip forward again to dig... and repeat the cycle.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I read that 6010 require high voltage in open circuit (>100 volt)I have 69 volt and I have a lot of problem using them (arc switch off in few seconds)what's your Open Circuit Voltage? and how do 6010 work?Last edited by bennett; 07-09-2009 at 04:00 AM.
Reply:How far do you whip forward to dig?  Thanks Desert.
Reply:TRX, whip forward about 2 electrode diameters and pause back about 1 diameter.   If you want to cool the puddle, whip further forward or whip out to the side, if you want to keep it hotter, whip less.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Bennett, I'm not sure about open circuit voltage.  I set the current (amps) and weld, the machine takes care of the voltage.   Sounds like maybe you need to set the current a bit higher, or hold a longer arc, or try a thinner rod?  Your machine is constant current output right?For what it's worth, my XMT has 90 open circuit volts and a CST 280 has 77.  I've welded with both of them and they stick weld equally well.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Ok, the dummy has to chime inDragging  means letting the puddle follow the rod as I bring it towards me.????????6011, 6013, 7018..  I pull the rod towards me to dig a trench, then go back into the puddle to fill the trench.  I don't call it whipping, it's more of a very slow progression where the arc is always in the puddle, or maybe within a hair of it.  Just enough to  make progression.  Only time it's out of the hot puddle is to dig a trench about 1/8 inch ahead of the puddle as it's progressing towards me.  Very fast movement where the puddle still is fluid.I'm all screwed up on the terminology I guess"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The "Drag" is literally a drag.  Strike the arc, create the puddle and and drag the rod along.  There is so side to side or forward and back movement.  And from the sounds of it you are whipping the 7018 and 6013 which isnt supposed to be done.  They will both have slag entrapment if whipped.  Pretty sure thats what I was told.  Hope that helped some.Thanks Desert
Reply:Well that's what confuses me.I certainly wouldn' t call these whipped welds.  Maybe I'm wrongA true drags seems to me to be what you could do with a wire semi automatic welder.  Point, shoot, and progress.  The machine builds the weld instead of your hand.There has to be some hand motion back into the puddle to build the weld.  A true no movement drag would leave a low weld.  No filler Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:With 7018, 7024 and 7014, do not leave the puddle.  Do not whip out of the puddle.   Do all your motions within the puddle.  You can weave side to side, but stay in the puddle.   Did I say stay inside the puddle?  Oh yeah, I already said that, sorry.  With 7018 and 7024, all you really need to do is drag it along, no other movement necessary, for flat/horiz position.   Control the bead size with your current setting and how fast you move the rod along.   Move slower = bigger bead.  Hotter puddle = bigger bead, provided you're not running away from it (going too fast).7024 is for flat/horizontal only, too wet for out of position.   It's good for filling a big groove faster than using 7018.  Drag only.6010 and 6011 are the whippers.  You need to dig/fill with these.  No dragging.  If you just drag it, you'll have digging but no fill.  6013 seems to like more motion than 7018 but it's not a whip/pause rod like 6011.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Now you got me thinking about everything I do.  That's good!!!!!!Getting purely theoretical  How is it possible to build filler without allowing the puddle to "freeze" to some degree?  Even if just for a millisecond.  Any motion imparted to the rod takes heat out of the zone.  A side to side motion directs heat into different parts of the puddle.  It removes heat in order to allow the metal to slightly solidify.Otherwise we could just point the rod into the corner and make a prefectly satisfactory fillet.  You have to work the toes of the fillet.Washing the puddle against a piece of flat is the same thing.  The heat is manipulated.  The puddle is allowed to cool to some degree, otherwise the undercut would be phenominal.  We'd literally eat the edge of the plate away.Ok, I'm getting weird...........er"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/Originally Posted by farmersammWashing the puddle against a piece of flat is the same thing.  The heat is manipulated.  The puddle is allowed to cool to some degree, otherwise the undercut would be phenominal.  We'd literally eat the edge of the plate away.Ok, I'm getting weird...........er