little help with firewood rack

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Hey Welders,For my first project I'm building a firewood rack.  I'm using 1.5 x 1.5 square tube steel for the four uprights and 1 x 2 rectangular steel tube for the cross pieces that will support the weight.  I've been wondering if butting the cross pieces to the uprights will be sufficient, or should I cut rectangular holes for the cross pieces to enter the uprights slightly before welding.  The steel is 16 ga. and I'm using a HF 131 with solid wire and C25 gas.Thanks,Dan
Reply:I'd butt weld it. If your concerned you could cut a few triangle gussets.
Reply:I second the Gussets. It will look and function well.Cain's Mechanical LLC Southwick, MAwww.cainsmechanical.comRig:-2006 Chevy 2500 utility body-Lincoln Ranger 10-Miller Spectrum -Tons of hand and power toolsAWS D1.2 Structural Steel Certification
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireI'd butt weld it. If your concerned you could cut a few triangle gussets.
Reply:Okee doke, that's easy enough.  Thanks !
Reply:you can just use an angle clip under the cross piece and weld it on 3 sides.
Reply:Don't forget:  We love pictures!  Plus, I might steal (borrow) your idea cuz my rack made from 2x4's may be on it's last year...(Retired) Professional firefighter, amateur everything else I try to do...Oh yeah:  Go Big Red!   (You know: one of the 12 members of the Big 10 cuz we left the 10 members of the Big 12...)
Reply:Two 8' 2"X4"s running horizontally and 2 4 footers verticle and you can store about 1/2 cord with this idea.If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:Let me put a little idea out thereIf I understand correctly, gussets and other similar reinforcements serve the purpose of moving the moment away from the intersecting members.  Spreading the force, so to speak.I suppose it could be spoken of in terms of stress raisers.  Intersections are stress raisers, welds can be stress raisers, or any change in direction of the structural members.Only reasons I can see for using gussets are:1. If you don't trust your welds2. The joint is subject to vibration or shock loads3. You're trying to work with lighter material, and pushing it a wee bit beyond it's capabilities, especially in connections4. Increasing the actual weld area due to the inherent weakness in the material (where the material is strong enough to carry the load overall, but has a tendancy to tear out in the weld area either because of tensile strength limitations or shear)One of the biggest design failures when fabricating stuff is the failure to realize that welding only joins edges.  It doesn't, in some cases, fully join the material in all planes (a problem common with fish plates, usually addressed by plug welds through the field of the plate)In your case, you're working with an ideal material...............square and rectangular tubing.Tubing forms the perfect joint when welded on all four sides.  The material is fully joined to the other piece of steel.  Butt joints, and "T" joints are a good example of this.So if you've chosen a strong enough material, and you trust your welding, there's little need to reinforce the joint unless it will come under extreme loading conditions due to flexing, shock, or unusual tension.  Gusseting will, otherwise, just move the moment further from the joint, and the steel will still fail beyond the legs of the gusset.  I feel the real key here is to choose the proper material for the load, and configure it properly.I realize gussets are good insurance in most cases, and I use them that way, but I'm starting to look real hard at the excess use of gussets in my projects.  I'm starting to build lighter and cheaper.  And I'm seeing pretty good results"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by strube1369Don't forget:  We love pictures!  Plus, I might steal (borrow) your idea cuz my rack made from 2x4's may be on it's last year...
Reply:I just use a pair of landscape timbers on the bottom to keep the wood off the ground then drive a t-post at either end and run a wire between them at the top to handle the outward stress.  Quick and simple, although be careful with that t-post driver if you are getting tired.  I darn near gave myself a concussion when the front edge caught on the top of the post and the driver pivoted down onto my skull.MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45, Lincoln IdealArc 250 AC/DC"I'd like to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible"