|
|
My issue right now is trying to decide which model I should go after. The large majority of projects will be thin aluminum and stainless steel, likely 1/8" max. I am sure I will want to weld other things here and there, but I don't want to sacrifice the quality of the machine for projects I'll rarely use.I'm wondering if I should just get a tig for the thin aluminum and stainless steel, and if needed, get a mig for anything larger. Likely anything larger will not be aluminum or stainless steel. If there is any, might not be enough to warrant a larger model.Ultimately, I don't want to sacrifice quality on the aluminum and stainless steel.In addition, cost comes into play. I am going to buy used, because it is the only way I'll get a model I need for a price range I can justify.At this point, mostly because I'm a newb, I'm a little lost on how much I should anticipate in spending and/or what I should be paying for a unit I desire.I've played on the Miller website and the 2 welders that come up are the Diversion 180 and the Dynasty 200 DX. Obviously a large price difference.
Reply:On heavier stuff you can always stick weld with most tigs. Millers Diversion series being one of the few exceptions to this rule, and in my opinion a strike against buying one. One machine you left out from Miller was the Syncrowave. I opted to go with the syncrowave over the Dynasty when I wanted to learn alum tig. I couldn't justify the 2x the cost for the dynasty, but wanted to get a machine that wouldn't limit me right away either. My Syncro 200 will let me do up to 3/16" alum with no issues, and tig thin to medium stainless and plain steel, and stick weld thicker if need be. You can easily find a nice lightly used Syncrowave 180 or 200 if you do a bit of searching. If you don't already use a CL aggregator like Searchtempest or Crazedlist, I'd highly recommend it. I usually use the search term "welder" and search the list manually to find "hidden" deals. You should be able to find a nice Syncrowave 180/200 from $900-1500 used depending on what comes with it. There are plenty of other options used as well to look at. Older industrial AC/DC tigs like Zaps Miller 330AB/P can start as low as $500-900 and do everything you are looking to do. New a Syncrowave 200, Lincoln 225 or Thermal Arc TA 185 will set you back close to $2500 or so.You might want to take a minute and add your location to your User CP at the top left. There are guys here who search CL daily and if they know where you are located, they may pas on a "deal" they spot that might be to your liking.Now the bad news... Tig is probably one of the hardest processes to learn well. Thin material and alum being even harder. If you want to learn fast, your best bet is to look at taking a night class at a local tech school. When you sit down and add up what materials, rod, gas, electric and so on will cost you, not to mention the instruction, a class is stupid cheap. Expect to spend a couple hundred hours learning if you want to weld alum. Add a few hundred more to do "thin" material. Start with 1/8" steel, which is easier and once you have that down, move on to alum or thinner steel..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Their is a guy I work with in the bodyshop that is just getting into welding and has ordered himself a new miller welder, the dealer did not stock them yet but he ordered one anyway, he as looking for an entry level machine for home and if he ever needs it in the shop, a multimatic 200 here;http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...p?model=M00361 is also capable of dc tig.
Reply:In addition to what DSW (always gives excellent advice) said,Look into a used TA 185. They can be had in nice condition with accessories for around $1500. Nice dependable units with alot of options. I sold mine to buy a used dynasty and probably shouldn't have done so. As a hobbyist I don't think I will ever be able to take advantage of any advantages the Dynasty has over the TA.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I would agree with DSW. You can find great deals on Craigslist if you take the time to look for them. I found my Airco Heliwelder IV on there about a week ago for $500 dollars and it came with all brand new stick leads(about 20-feet), tweco connectors, heavy-duty cart with steel castors, and I've read that they are SUPER-reliable. Just keep checking and you will eventually come across a deal that you won't be able to pass up. Once you find that deal you will realize that it was worth the little bit of a wait.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=147271Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:Yeah, I have been keeping my eye on Craigslist. Missed a good Lincoln tig on there the other day.I didn't say syncrowave because I don't know anything about them . Also, Miller's site didn't recommend one for my application. I have seen some positive reviews on them. Haven't heard anything bad about them. The ones I've seen on Craigslist look well used.I only care about my stainless and aluminum welds. Everything else wouldn't be anything I would care too much about. So, in no way do I want to sacrifice my good welds.I wonder if it'd be a good idea to just get a nice tig for aluminum & stainless, and when needed get a super cheap $100 HF mig for everything else or a used Miller mig, etc. Likely, everything else I could care less how it looks.I plan on this being a learning process of course. I plan on having a lot of bad welds. I will look into a class, never even thought about that.I'll look into all the welders everyone has listed so far.Thanks for the replies so far!Last edited by just_some_dude; 08-05-2012 at 02:07 PM.
Reply:Not sure why Miller wouldn't recommend a Syncrowave for your application unless you are leaving out something that you aren't telling us. A Syncrowave will pretty much run circles around a Diversion with two exceptions, 120v power supply, and portability. However you won't be doing any alum welding with a Diversion on 120v power unless it's super thin. You simply don't get enough amps out of one on a standard 120v outlet. The Dynasty is a bit better on 120v power, but if you want to more than sheetmetal, you'll probably be tripping a 20 amp 120v breaker. The Dynasty wants 30 amps on 120v power to get the most out of a 120v line. If you have to run a dedicated 30 amp line anyways, why not simply run 230v and be done with it.Oh and a $100 HF mig won't do material any thicker than you can easily tig. If you are lucky you might do 14 ga with one of those HF units..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:A couple of comments. You have no experience with tig, You may never stick arc weld. Here are a couple of reviews by newbies the state the virtues and drawbacks of the Diversion180. Not that Syncrowaves or Dynastys can't do the job, but you say you will only do 1/8 alum. Without school to teach you, the Diversion is very simple. Personally I am way past the Diversions. If I were to outfit a friend, it would be the Div180.http://www.easterndirt.com/?p=9175http://www.4x4review.com/Reviews/Pro...4/Default.aspxWeld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:This is what is used on the Miller Smart selector...TIG-> Aluminum, Mild or Stainless Steel, Chrome-Moly & Cast Iron ->115 & 230 v -> from here I choose 1/16 or 1/8 -> then chose rarely moved or never moved.The 2 welders that kept coming up were Diversion 180 or the Dynasty 200 DX.Those reviews were helpful, thanks!
Reply:Got a bare-bones Syncrowave 250 in great shape for $850 a few years ago. Sometimes you can do better. Getting it outfitted for water cooling and whatnot took it to about $1,200. It's the cost of doing business."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Selecting 115v drops out the Syncrowave since it's 230v only. However if you look at the output specs on the other machines on 115v power, you will find that your are fairly limited, especially so with alum that needs a lot of amps. If all you want to do is steel/stainless 16ga and thinner, then you can easily run on 115v power. No way you will do 1/8" alum with the Diversion on 115v power, you simply don't have the output. The Dynasty will do it, but only on a 30 amp 115v line, Not exactly "standard" in any homes I know.If you want to do 1/8" alum, you have to run 230v power. If you are going to anyways, why not get the syncrowave....No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWSelecting 115v drops out the Syncrowave since it's 230v only. However if you look at the output specs on the other machines on 115v power, you will find that your are fairly limited, especially so with alum that needs a lot of amps. If all you want to do is steel/stainless 16ga and thinner, then you can easily run on 115v power. No way you will do 1/8" alum with the Diversion on 115v power, you simply don't have the output. The Dynasty will do it, but only on a 30 amp 115v line, Not exactly "standard" in any homes I know.If you want to do 1/8" alum, you have to run 230v power. If you are going to anyways, why not get the syncrowave...
Reply:I am far from being a welding expert,learned with Ox/Acet.,then Stick, then Mig.and then Tig.As far as I can see a 115 volt welder is meant for muffler and auto body shop type work.Where I worked,most of there Tig.welders were 440 volt and a few 220 volt.They welded everything from .032 to how ever heavy the machine would handle material, also some very thin inconel.Although He did not mention the shape or sizes other then 1/8" thick ,He was going to weld.If I were Him I would go for a 220 volt welder,With a water cooled handle.
Reply:Likely the material I will be working with will be (maybe 3/4" diameter) round 1/16" thick. 1/8" is to keep me on the safe side. I rather be bigger and rarely use it then smaller and regret it when I can't use it.I may be messing with some rectangular pieces as well. But that is future.I could easily install whatever electrical line that is needed.
Reply:I've got a lead on a Dynasty 200 SD for about 1200. Don't think it has anything but the welder. Not sure if that will do everything I need it to do, any feedback? I have been looking into it.
Reply:It would do a fine job if it is working well. You won't have the pulse feature but you don't need it welding alum.$1200 is a decent price too. The serial # will tell you what year it is, and whether it has the latest arc start technology.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Guy said he'll send serial number tomorrow. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by just_some_dudeGuy said he'll send serial number tomorrow.
Reply:For what your describing, id go with a dynasty all day long. By the way I run mine off a 20 amp 120 volt receptacle, and I can weld at 125 amps, and havent tripped the breaker once.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonWhat about the rest of the parts? Would be nice if you could test it.
Reply:Originally Posted by usmcruzFor what your describing, id go with a dynasty all day long. By the way I run mine off a 20 amp 120 volt receptacle, and I can weld at 125 amps, and havent tripped the breaker once.
Reply:Originally Posted by just_some_dudeI haven't verified if the rest of the parts are with it. He said he got it in a deal and that it works great. My problem is I won't even know how to test it .
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255BTW, according to Cruizer (the resident electric guru) on the Miller site, a Dynasty SD can be changed to a DX for very cheap. IIRC, somewhere in the neighborhood of $100.
Reply:Serial number is LG460400L. Looks like a 2006 model, but that is about as far as I know. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWThe Dynasty is a bit better on 120v power, but if you want to more than sheetmetal, you'll probably be tripping a 20 amp 120v breaker. The Dynasty wants 30 amps on 120v power to get the most out of a 120v line. If you have to run a dedicated 30 amp line anyways, why not simply run 230v and be done with it.Having my dynasty 200 dx, as well as my trailblazer 302 before I sold it, I have never needed to weld thicker than 3/16, with the occasional 1/4. Not trying to build a tank, but the thought has crossed my mind. 99% of my projects were in the thickness of 1/8 and under. Even bumpers dont go past 1/8 for the most part. I love my dynasty 200 dx. Im gonna be buried with that machine. I think I may love it more than the wife, although getting intimate with it has its risk! :beer:
Reply:So, if I have never welded before, how should I test this machine? I have to travel a long distance to get it. Worried I may travel for ever and not even know if it is good or bad and no way to really know how to test it.Are the 2006 models any different from the 2012?
Reply:Aside from incremental improvements they make here and there I think the only big addition was Blue Lightning for better HF starting. Last I checked it's IC based versus spark gap operation. The newer machines probably have better power factors too, allowing you to get more power output for given amps. I know the newest Millers get about 140A or so at 31A input on 120v. The newest Stel units can get away with 14A on 120v, and 11A on 240v with a .99 power factor. Trying to get a hold of the power board to swap to.If you want to use more than 20A, just run the 240V.Provided everything works on that machine, that's not a bad deal. I'd only be worried if the inside are all clogged with junk. Then again, that's not a bad day if you're comfortable taking the panels off and cleaning things out.Personally I ended up with an HTP unit (Stel Italy). The machine I used before that was a dynasty 300dx in our old robotics lab. Both machines work great, but I have found the HTP interface to be pretty slick. On the flip side, I've heard the IC based HF on the newer dynasties is pretty sweet. I'd happily take either one to the grave with me haha.As for testing, the cheapest, quickest way would be as mentioned, grab a stinger and ground clamp for stick.To test TIG, you could probably trigger the machine in "button" 2t/4t mode by jumping the needed pins. Would simulate hitting the switch on a torch or foot pedal. Not sure if the pinout is the same for the Dyn200, but I have done it with the HTP and the old Dyn 300dx we had. FYI, if you find a torch instead of the stinger, you can slide a stick electrode into the Tig torch to test stick mode.)Last edited by Commodore8888; 08-07-2012 at 03:02 PM.HTP Invertig 221-DV -- get's dragged everywhere.Syncro 200 -- "The Boat Anchor" at the lab.Lincoln 125 MIG
Reply:Thanks for all the info. Just got a message from the guy, he said it is only the unit itself, no leads, tig, etc. I'll have to buy all of that...
Reply:Originally Posted by just_some_dudeThanks for all the info. Just got a message from the guy, he said it is only the unit itself, no leads, tig, etc. I'll have to buy all of that...
Reply:Yeah I don't know the guy. The tig is actually about 6 hours away. So, 12 hours round trip! The tig is a grand, I just factored in gas money in the total costs. So, totally possible I could waste gas money and never actually purchase the tig. In addition, my welding knowledge and experience with machines are zero. All around, a bit nerving.Guy says it works great. He didn't want to do PayPal and ship.It is a bit freaky. Of course he said I could test it. He said he could hook it up to stick weld.So, seems like a great deal, but seems almost on the verge of too good to be true? The guy sounds like he got it in a trade, so I imagine he has no background on the machine.I have until this weekend to decide because that is when I would travel there.
Reply:Where do I find the part for the interface for the tig? I was looking through the parts list but wasn't finding anything through Google.What should I be searching for?
Reply:From the looks of the unit, it looks like it seen heavy use! Maybe thats the reason for the price.
Reply:Not to alarm you, but take a couple of buddies with you, phones in hand and be prepared to take photos.A couple of years ago a guy went to buy a high end bicycle. Agreed to meet the guy at a business. The business was not his, and when they met up, the sellers buddies jumped him a took his cash.Moral of the story is always go through paypal and be wary of meetups. This whole arrangement sounds risky. The best thing for you to do is find someone with a contractors kit, and knows how to use it. That way you can demo it on the spot before buying. Maybe that is why the seller has no tig pieces.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Take a look at this:http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/Dynasty_guide.pdfThey show the buttons you push to get the Arc Time/Counter Display. This will tell you how many hours is on the machine. If it has really low hours and looks like that, someone may have reset the counter, then that begs the question what are they hiding. Why doesn't he have the torch, foot peddle, and ground clamp anyway?kigtigger24 They think Im crazy, but I know better. It is not I who am crazy. It is I who am MAD!
Reply:I've found the guy through searching Google by his name, phone number, and email.I am not completely sure why he doesn't have all the accessories, he said he got it in a deal. I imagine that means a trade.I'll ask him to check the counter. He is probably getting sick of my questions .The feeling I am getting from everyone is to pass this one by and wait for another good deal. The guy is in WV. If anyone is in WV and wants to go check it out ...
Reply:Guy's response when I asked about the counter... he said he didn't know all the features, but has used stick and tig on it and works fine.Not exactly the response I was hoping for.For all I know it may still be a great deal. But, to drive 12 hours round trip... that is risky.
Reply:I am very leary. This seller could have a repair shop bench it for $75 to $100 bucks. The diagonstics report could seal the deal and he could up the price by that amount or more.When I want to upgrade, I sell perfectly operational machines under power for the perspective buyer to try. Having some guy sell something he does not even know how to use gives me the willies.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonI am very leary. This seller could have a repair shop bench it for $75 to $100 bucks. The diagonstics report could seal the deal and he could up the price by that amount or more.When I want to upgrade, I sell perfectly operational machines under power for the perspective buyer to try. Having some guy sell something he does not even know how to use gives me the willies.
Reply:I imagine he has other welders with leads that he used...At this point, as much as I'd like to go get it, the risk is too high. If it were local, I'd go over there and check it out.I'd ask him to take it to a shop, but doubt he will. He is already pretty defensive about the price stating that it is a great bottom dollar deal, which would probably be right if it worked well.Too bad, on to the next.
Reply:If I can't get a Dynasty in my price range (which is understandable), I think I'm going to have to settle for the Diversion 180. I can't stick weld, but I should be able to weld just about everything I need to, just be slower.Now just have to find a good deal .
Reply:Well here is where I am at now... deciding between the Lincoln 175 or the Diversion 180.Haven't found a lot of information comparing the 2. Anyone have some feedback?
Reply:I have used them both. The Linclone 175 is a transformer tig with a horrible duty cycle, but it welds thin metals smooth and nice until the machine overheats in the middle of a weld. It is 220volts only and will work in most garage setups with a laundry plug.The Diversion 180 is an inverter tig. They stupified it so I have installed a couple in the schools in the community. They are lite on power consumption, and can run off of 115 volts, but then have the duty cycle issues too.Of the two, I give the nod to the Diversion180 especially if you want a really short learning curve. But Linclone makes rock solid transformer welders.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Got the Diversion 180. Ordered it the other day.
Reply:An observation I had while working with the Diversions. 2% Ceriated tungstens worked very well on AC, but not so good with DC. 2% thoriated held a point very well on DC, so I got a box of each for the operators to work with. Between the two the cover nearly all applications and they are cheap.Last edited by shovelon; 09-06-2012 at 08:59 AM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Thanks for the heads up |
|
发表于 2021-8-31 23:44:24