root of all evil/splitting hairs

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So,I'm doin pretty good on my horizontal welds except I can't seem to get a CONSISTANT good root pass.When I stress test my welds,the face side will pass with flying colors,now that I've figuired out what I was doing wrong there,however I've been having trouble getting the root side down. I'm using 3/8" plate w/a single-v open joint. I'm using a torch on a track set at a preset angle to cut the plate,then I grind the plate and put a root face on about the thickness of a nickel.My gap is slightly smaller than the 1/8". I'm using 6010 for the root pass.I've got the machine set around 75-80 amps.I'm dragging the bead,instead of whipping. Every time I've tried whipping the root,it's ended in total disaster.I get really good penetration on the back side. I push rod through a little as I drag. But,for some reason I wind up moving from top plate to the bottom and back again. It can be seen on the back side when I inspect my weld,and if it splits,that's where it does.I'm sure it's an easy fix,but for some reason it's eluding me. Has anybody else had this problem?
Reply:You should be whipping and pausing when welding a horizontal root pass with E6010 electrode.  You're not getting consistent penetration because your electrode isn't burning evening(fingernailing) and/or your not maintaining the correct work angle.  You need to aim up slightly in order to counter the effect of gravity on the molten weld pool.  Forming a keyhole and whipping the rod half a diameter forward and then back to the keyhole for a momentary pause is important. It lets you know that your penetrating all the way through the base metal and let's you see that you're getting fusion on the top and bottom half of the joint.  You can also see how you need to adjust your work and travel angles during each whip and pause.  Removing the heat from the weld puddle by whipping forward lets it freeze where you intended the weld metal to go.  By dragging your keeping the heat on the puddle, and it's sagging down and not achieving good fusion wiht the top side of the root opening.  You're probably getting lack of fusion on the bottom toe line because your work angle is off, or because the flux on the rod isn't burning evenly and this is interfereing with the puddle.Rather than giving up on the correct technique, you need to go back and practice more.There are times you can drag E6010 for a root pass, like downhill in 5G or 6G pipewelidng,  but this(2G) isn't one of them.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:A hot pass (of 6010)  after the root (put in like Dab said) will help to set the root pass a bit deeper. Proper interpass cleaning is vary important concentrating on the toe of the weld will help to reinforce the tie in of the root.
Reply:Get some junk metal and practice whipping/stepping the electrode until you get it down good. 6010s are not meant to be drug.What size 6010s are a you using?
Reply:using 1/8" at around 75-80 amps.
Reply:Also,I was tryin to whip a bead on some scrap earlier today,but I just wound up with holes that i had to go back and fill after they cooled a little.they were really ugly.Anything under 70 amps,the rod would stick.anything over 80,left a hole big enough to drive a car through. I just walked away and started speaking french..
Reply:Sounds like you're trying to practice on metal that's too thin for the rod diameter.  Drop down to 3/32 rods and you can run them hot enough not to stick and cool enough not to blow through.   Also, I find 6011 on DC+ goes on a little smoother than 6010.  That may help your practicing.  Another thing you may try if the whipping and pausing isn't working for you is move the rod in small circles instead.  It accomplishes the digging, cooling and filling of the whip/pause motion but is a little easier to run consistently.   Once you feel comfortable with that, then go back and try the whip/pause method.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:All excellent advice.  Personally I would whip a 3/3/2 6010 DC+.  However, lots of folks use 6011s.Sounds like to me you may want to try going back to a fillet weld and master whipping 6010 or 6011. If you have already done that, then keep practicing with no more than 1/8th root (we always said a heavy 1/16) and watch the key hole.  It will come to ya with enough practice.  You have to whip a little longer as you progress down the root since the metal is heating, or stop and let it cool some.  Practice on 5/16 or so.  Don't go too thin. Keep burning the rods, you'll get it.GeezerPower Mig 255C185 TIGBlue 175 MIGRanger 8 Kohler 20HP1974 5K Lincoln/Wisconsin Powered (Cherry)Victor/Harris O/AK 487 Spool Gun
Reply:Here is one for you to try I use it when i have that problem.. Go to strat polarity DC- same amps only do it for the root pass then switch to DC+ to run your fill and cover passes.. Some of the old timers know about what I just told you..
Reply:I'll second what Graydevil said.  But also say that I'm not sure this is going to help you when welding a 2G joint.  I still favor you using a whip and pause technique for this position.Lot's of root pass welding on pipe(5G or 6G positions) is done DCEN with E6010 outside of the USA.  I've tried using both polarity settings on a root pass.  I think that E6010 burns smoother into the root on DCEN, with the heat concentrated on the base metal.  Don't forget to swap back to DCEP for your hot, fill, and cap passes.  DCEN polarity doesn't help deposit good beads on the later passes.  IF anything the puddle is harder to control in the Fill and Cap when the polarity is set for DCEN.Just be careful with this as not everybody accepts this as good practice here in the USA. It's one thing to try this on your own, but check with your employer before doing this on a job. Originally Posted by GraydevilHere is one for you to try I use it when i have that problem.. Go to strat polarity DC- same amps only do it for the root pass then switch to DC+ to run your fill and cover passes.. Some of the old timers know about what I just told you..
Reply:Well,I'm definetly goin to make a smaller opening. I've been running just shy of 1/8".I was told by someone I trust to have a gap between 1/3 to 1/2 the diameter of the rod I'm using. and was also suggested to try pushing my rod instead of dragging,because it helps preheat the metal a little. At this point,the only thing I'm out is the time to setup the plates.changing the angle of the rod makes some sense,since you whip away/push when doing vert up.
Reply:Don't use a push travel angle in this situation.  In my opinion whoever told you to do that is giving you poor advice.  You run the risk of burying slag in the weld puddle.  3/32 - 1/8" for land and root opening is correct.When whipping and pausing during a 3G up weld, you might shift from a 10-20°  drag angle to 0° travel angle, but you shouldn't be pushing the travel angle at all.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Well,I tried the push method this morning....once.tightening up the gap helped greatly. What really helped,was having my instructor lay a good bead,while I got really close to watch what was going on.afterwards,It took 6 tries before I got what looked like a decent weld. I hate to use the word"decent" but a person could tell that there was good fusion all the way through the entire length of the weld.MUCH practice the rest of this week.But,I'm just happy that I've got an idea of how to do it correctly.The more I learn,the less I realize I know.
Reply:Everybody feels that way at some time or another, and it's usually a sign that you're on the road to where you want to go.Good luck. Originally Posted by all10fingersThe more I learn,the less I realize I know.