Ethics question

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Hey, just wanted to get someones thoughts on a decision I'm trying to make;I started making small batches of a specialy items for a guy I know, who in turn sells them within his industry connections for a profit. After a while, the orders dimminished and stopped so I started selling them on kijiji figuring his market was saturated or he was getting a better deal elsewhere. I've since talked to him and he's taking the last couple off of my hands to put in his inventory.Today, I got an email from someone who wants one. I make a little more money by selling them this way, so do I keep my ad running knowing I'll be competing with my main customer who's trying to unload the two I just supplied? Do I refer the sale to my customer or do I save the latest inquiry for my next batch?Last edited by Canoe2fish; 09-11-2012 at 06:02 PM.Thermal Arc Fabricator 2101970 Lincoln RedfaceMiller 150 STLStill need a Syncrowave and a plasma and a milling machine and a lathe and a bigger shop and a....
Reply:Did you check with him before you did your "figuring" and started selling them?"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:i have a waterjet, and hold the files to many many items people manufacture and resell.In my opinion you crossed the line and have already gone to the darkside.  Do what you want, i dont sell my customers stuff behind their backs.Just my 2 cents.
Reply:Your "customer" is one distribution channel and kijiji is another. Why would you put all your eggs in one basket? I assume you don't have an "exclusive sales" contract with your customer for this product so I can't see where there is any ethical issues at play. If you make better margins down a particular sales channel versus another, then focus your efforts on that channel. Who are you in business for, youself or "the guy you know"?
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumDid you check with him before you did your "figuring" and started selling them?
Reply:If its something for which the person came to you with the idea, and said "design and build me this, it'll be a production item for me" then I think you shouldn't really sell the parts.  Talk to them about it.  If they don't care, no harm, no foul.-AaronJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:Thanks guys - It isnt sitting right with me either, I think I'll refer the sale through my original guy and ask him to keep marketing them.Thermal Arc Fabricator 2101970 Lincoln RedfaceMiller 150 STLStill need a Syncrowave and a plasma and a milling machine and a lathe and a bigger shop and a....
Reply:Originally Posted by Canoe2fishNo, but I did check in with him to see if anything was happening on them several times. It was about 6mos after the last order that I posted my ad. We're not talking huge profits here, mabe $30-50 an item. He also knew I had an ad up and running.Drivethru, this is not a product thats exclusive to him, nor is the design. He's just marketing these items through his contacts.I can make them cheaper in my home shop than anyone can buy them in a store or online...I'm not running a business here (side jobs)
Reply:Seems to me if you don't have a written contract, it's your design, he never committed to buy all you can make and his orders from you have slowed, you are free do make more of them and market them yourself.ChrisAuction Addict
Reply:as you've stated. He doesn't own the design or the concept. You questioned him about the sales, and he knew you had an add. If he hasn't brought anything up, then you're fine. Where as I commend you for your over active conscience, one must look out for themselves first. I say sell both ways. he's got his market share, you've got yours. simple as that.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:[QUOTE=Canoe2fish;1568171 ... this is not a product thats exclusive to him, nor is the design. He's just marketing these items through his contacts.I can make them cheaper in my home shop than anyone can buy them in a store or online...I'm not running a business here (side jobs)[/QUOTE]Well, then, you have your answer right there.  Maybe you owe him a little honorarium for making you aware of it.  If you can be a steady supplier to those who need them, then fine. If not, you do a disservice to those who need them and the guy who brought you the idea in the first place."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:If you have an agreement/contract with him then you should not sell them. But you say you have already been selling them so were does the Ethics come into play, you have already went past that point!!I have a Ebay store, people steal my adds every day and sell the same items that I have been selling for years, their are no Ethics today.www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:Thanks again guys. I dont want to cut his grass, but expand on possibilities.I'm going to discuss that with him and see if we cant get things going between the two of us - then we both benefitBTW, no contracts made/impliedThermal Arc Fabricator 2101970 Lincoln RedfaceMiller 150 STLStill need a Syncrowave and a plasma and a milling machine and a lathe and a bigger shop and a....
Reply:OK, I'll play the Devils Advocate. Lets suppose you got all set up and build some of these widgets for a guy to resell. You do OK but will never become a millionaire.The orders dwindle and you ask him "What's up?".He says I am having them built in China much cheaper than you were doing it?????????????????????????????????????????????????Shame on you.My thoughts on business and integrity have changed over the past 15 years. If you have an "opportunity" and don't jump on it with both feet................... Someone else will. They will probably speak Chinese.Don't let the grass grow under your feet. If a business is going to survive.... it's got to grow. Grow your business while you still can.Buy American.HoboLincoln SA200's... at least 15 - 20. They come and go. Growing partial to the "Short Hoods" in my old age. Last count on Short Hoods was 13 in possession.
Reply:Four questions; Is his design patented, do you consider him a friend, do you have a written contract with him and do you have a good lawyer?
Reply:Originally Posted by mb_welderFour questions; Is his design patented, do you consider him a friend, do you have a written contract with him and do you have a good lawyer?
Reply:Why do you have to ask someone else how you should behave?If the guy is a personal friend, point out that he is not buying and you need to pay for your consumeables, give him first option on your current production stock levels.....if he doesn't want to place firm orders....go it alone......no problems.....don't be tied by somone else's lack of market penetration.....he's not your employer, he doesn't own you.Ian.
Reply:Unless u have a signed/exclusive contract,  u r free to sell any product u make to anyone.   If u think there is ethics left in business anymore u r living in the past.   Look at any corp and find ethics?  Its all about greed and money unfortunately..  look at all the infringement lawsuits with corp A suing corp B who counter sues corp A...   You r in business to make money and if you are not violating the first sentence then your only real consideration is does this customer buy lots of other products from you that if you sell this item through other channels then the customer will stop bringing you his other business.   This is a business and profit decision.  NOT an ethics decision.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawUnless u have a signed/exclusive contract,  u r free to sell any product u make to anyone.   If u think there is ethics left in business anymore u r living in the past.   Look at any corp and find ethics?  Its all about greed and money unfortunately..  look at all the infringement lawsuits with corp A suing corp B who counter sues corp A...   You r in business to make money and if you are not violating the first sentence then your only real consideration is does this customer buy lots of other products from you that if you sell this item through other channels then the customer will stop bringing you his other business.   This is a business and profit decision.  NOT an ethics decision.
Reply:Originally Posted by Canoe2fishNo, but I did check in with him to see if anything was happening on them several times. It was about 6mos after the last order that I posted my ad. We're not talking huge profits here, mabe $30-50 an item. He also knew I had an ad up and running.Drivethru, this is not a product thats exclusive to him, nor is the design. He's just marketing these items through his contacts.I can make them cheaper in my home shop than anyone can buy them in a store or online...I'm not running a business here (side jobs)
Reply:Seems like a 50/50 split on opinions here.Let me remind eveyone this;1) There are no patents involved and there are many variables of this gadget around. My understanding is that its an old concept thats resurfaced. Saying that he or I stole a concept is like saying I'm stealing a concept if I build a trailer, ladder rack, workbench etc...Trust me, we're talking a crude device here. Its actually a concept that was BEFORE the invent of the wheel!   2) There was never an agreement. It started as "hey can you make a batch of these for my buddies" and grew from there (not huge, but say about 4 batches)3) When the orderes stopped - I figured the local market was either saturated or he was going elsewhere. He does have another guy he can go to.4) This is a very small production - we're talking hundreds of dollars, not thousands. Just a bit of play money is all for the shop kittyThermal Arc Fabricator 2101970 Lincoln RedfaceMiller 150 STLStill need a Syncrowave and a plasma and a milling machine and a lathe and a bigger shop and a....
Reply:I think you're making this more than it really is. you're not contacting his contacts to take away money from him. You're doing a totally different market search. you're fine. make what money you can, while you can.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I get what you are saying, but to have something made in China, you are gonna have to order a buttload. They are not gonna make onesy twosies. And they sure as heck are not gonna ship it on a container cargo ship unless there are tons of them. I doubt if he is not selling a million units a year, they are not gonna get made in China...I could be wrong. I think that might have happened once. I am not sure.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:I see absolutely no ethics issues, based on what you are saying.
Reply:What is kijiji ?I say go where the money is as long as you didn't sign or promise him you wouldn't sell to anyone else.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal DealerOriginally Posted by GambleWhat is kijiji ?I say go where the money is as long as you didn't sign or promise him you wouldn't sell to anyone else.