lincoln weld-pak 100 enough (rollcage)

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I'm not jumping into it yet but I may be putting a roll cage in my bug. I'm thinking maybe 1.5" dia .120 wall thickness and I already have a weld-pak 100 but does it have enough balls to weld it safely ? I'm not sure how many amps it puts out so I was hoping to get some experienced input. The cage doesn't have to meet any sanctioning bodies rules so we can skip that discussion.Thanks,Rich
Reply:Originally Posted by havik180 The cage doesn't have to meet any sanctioning bodies rules so we can skip that discussion.Thanks,Rich
Reply:If it only puts out 100 amps and your cage tube is .120 wall, you don't have enough machine for the job.  Inexperienced mig welds with an underpowered machine do not a safe roll cage make.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Boy, are you going to have a suppressed look on your face when the welds break. It’s one of those AR--$hit moments. At least you have the good sense to ask.
Reply:I have learned a lot since purchasing a 110v mig unit years ago.  I found that it is very difficult to get the machine to weld up to the specs on the box.  Most of my old welds were cold and broke very easily.My recommendation is a bigger machine and more experience.
Reply:Though I have never built roll cages, much of what I have welded over the years with a Weldpack 100 is still in use and none of it has fallen apart.  My incentive to buy a new and better machine was to be able to weld thinner material as much as thicker.  A majority of my projects over the years with that little welder used 1/8" wall square tubing and angle iron.  I always refused to weld anything structural for anyone else and the only thing I ever welded with it that has been on the road is the spare tire rack on my utility trailer and that only after years of observation convinced me that my welds will hold just fine.  I only used fluxcore with that machine but 1/8" material did not seem beyond it's capability.  Just my experience, and I am NOT recommending that anyone should take a Weldapck 100 and build himself a roll cage.Larry "I feel for the man who cannot spell a word more than one way."  by Mark TwainLincoln AC225-SLincoln Weldpac 100 Miller Matic 180 (auto set)Miller Spectrum 375 ExtremeMiller Spoolmate 100Victor Super Range II
Reply:With skill and experience, you can cokes a lot more from any tool than novice.
Reply:I have that machine.I have been working my way up to do a cage on my 'Zuke.I've done tube bumpers first.I'm going to do frame braces next .Then better mounts for the transfer case,rear axle truss.You could always get a raceshop to put the main hoop in,and you weld in the gussets.This is my plan.My Cdn. .02 cents.Ross
Reply:There are some guys locally that have built cages with 120 volt welders but they are pretty experienced fabricators.  Where they have the most difficulty welding is with the cage footings and frame attachments.  Welding is just one part of building a good cage.  The time consuming parts are design and fab.  It's cheaper to go to Summit or the guy I use, Roll Cage Components and get a kit.  If you are just going to do a single cage a kit is by far the least expensive way to go.Even then if you have to ask your rig is up to the task you might not be ready.  How I got ready after several other projects was to get a stick of what I was going to use for the first cage.  I got a notcher and started doing training cuts and joints.   What some of the racers around here have done is to tack fit their own cage kits then get one of the experienced local guys to do the finish welds.  With some practice, good tools and basic skills you'll be able to weld your own stuff.Dave
Reply:Some 120 volt machine can do it with a very limited duty cycle. A weld-pac 100 is not 1 of the few. I would not take on the job with less than a 155/180 class machine.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Havik, the rule of thumb is one amp for each 0.001 inch of thickness. Your stock is 0.120 in. 0.120/0.001 = 120 amps. The weld pack 100 puts out 100 amps max with a very short duty cycle. The weld pack is rated at 88amps, 20 % duty cycle. 1/8 inch is 0.125 inches. Try welding a T joint the and bend test it to see how deep the penetration is. I think you will be disappointed.
Reply:Originally Posted by jmtebbensYes and no.  Sanctioning rules are there for a reason.  They save lives.  It sounds like you are pretty new to welding.  Are you sure that this is the kind of thing you are willing to put your life on?Probably not what you wanted to hear, but it's what I felt that needed to be said.  Just m y .02.
Reply:i think it would be a goood learning thing to get someof the tubibng, and do somepractice joints, and see if they break when you stress them
Reply:If you are experienced with holding your heat to one area, and you can get good solid welds from your weldpack 100, then you can do it. If you are having issues with welding 1/8" materials, then use a different machine or practice more.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:havik 180, Thank you for being smart enough to ask about the abilities of this machine, which by the way, i will add to the list of NO it won't sufficiently weld your cage opinions.As others have suggested, building a roll cage is not something to be left up to a novice welder or fabricator to accomplish. Good fit up as well as good engineering are equally as important to the construction of a cage just as much as the welding part of it. A poorly engineered cage with good welds can be just as dangerous as, or more so, than a poorly welded one with good engineering.As for Anvil 14 who suggested that the cage be professionally welded and then add the gussets yourself, I would suggest that you reconsider that train of thought. The gussets are there for more than looks, they are an essential part of the cage construction and are very structural in nature. Poorly placed or poorly welded can have some very dramatic and catastrophic results when put to the test. Do you really want to find out the hard way if your welding is good enough?I am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Short answer:  No.Even if the sanctioning rules allow MIG welding of the rollcage, the machine you mention is NOT really up to the task.As mentioned, welding rule of thumb is 1 amp per each 0.001 inch metal thickness.  For tube with 0.120 wall thickness, that means 120 amps.  That machine won't do that.Also, the little 120V MIG machines -usually- don't have enough volts at their higher amperage outputs to run MIG for anything thicker than 'gauge' thickness.  Most of the 120V MIG machines that I looked at the specs for all seem to top out at about 14 gauge for MIG welding.  The  machines DO often have a slightly thicker 'capapbility' when running in FCAW mode with some E71T-11 electrodes (like Lincoln NR-211-MP) which run in a relatively low-voltage mode.Also note that E71T-11 FCAW electrodes don't have to meet any CVN impact properties.  Which to me means that those class of FCAW electrodes are NOT suitable for anything like a rollcage.  A rollcage is there to save your a## in case of an 'impact event', so you really-really-really want the welds to be g-o-o-d and the materials to be impact rated.No dis against NR-211-MP wire, but a rollcage is NOT where it should be used.The 120V MIG machines have their uses.  MIG welding a 0.120 wall thickness steel rollcage is not one of them.Last edited by MoonRise; 12-14-2009 at 11:14 AM.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Moonrise have you built cages?  There is only one case in which I'm aware where the sanction calls for a specfic process.  The NHRA calls for GTAW for 8 second cars and that's because they require 4130.  In the slower classes 1010 using GMAW is perfectly acceptable.  Sports cars do not dictate process, nor does circle track.  In fact, all divisions of NASCAR routinely use GMAW process on not only chassis but cage construction as well.  The ability of the fabricator and the design of the cage is more critical than the process used.
Reply:I didn't say GMAW could not be used to built a roll cage.I -did- say to double-check any possible sactioning body rules or regulations.I -did- say that a little 120V MIG machine is really not the right tool to weld a roll cage of 0.120 wall thickness.I -did- say the an E71T-11 FCAW-S with no CVN properties is not the right electrode to weld a roll cage with.I -did- say to use the right tool and the right materials for the job.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...