Cleaning tubing / pipe

admin

A buddy of mine told me about a surplus yard that has a lot of pipe and square tube for a really good price.  trouble is...its all rusty.  Not a problem most of the time...just hit it with a wire brush.  However, I have need of some square tubing that needs to be kinda clean on the inside.  Any Ideas on how to clean "long" pcs of tubing on the inside?When I cut and fit these for my little project.....many pcs. will need to be about 6-12 foot long.  Acid is out of the question....I dont have a tub long enough nor the space to put one if I did.  The only idea I have is some kind of sandblast or a long-handled wire brush.Any "positive" input is welcome.Thanx
Reply:Do a search on Electrolysis for rust removal, you could build a tub out of wood & plastic for your project.I stand behind my welding, I just won't stand under it!
Reply:You could cap one end, stand it up, and then fill it with acid.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Hey guys,   Thanx for the responses so far.  Acid is simply out of the question.  Too many kids and animals around. its a safety issue here.  Even the storage of it poses a major problem, kids get into EVERYTHING!Ill look into the electrolysis...sounds like an idea.Thanks Guys.
Reply:The problem with electrolysis is it's 'line of sight', so won't clean the inside. There are chelating chemicals (Evaporust for example) which are pretty inert and safe to sue around kids (assuming they don't drink too much of it), but you'd also be looking at the lowest cost possible, I'd have thought. 'Acid' is usually phosphoric acid and at the strengths used for rust removal is also pretty harmless.
Reply:Originally Posted by unknownDo a search on Electrolysis for rust removal, you could build a tub out of wood & plastic for your project.
Reply:I can appreciate your looking out for the kids( though my inner bad person screams " natural selection" ......... go thing I haven't kids of my own!)Anywho...............I'll through this out there for any one that can use Murriatic acid. I had bought a large quantity of surface rusted 1/4 round bar. Needed to clean them and didn't want to do it one at a time. Went to the local commercial sewer pipe supplier and got 11' of 6" green sewer pipe (off cut for beer fund cash), a cap end and a threaded cap end. Glue them up (they even let me use their glue so I wouldn't have to buy a bottle for just two ends).Put the 1/4" stock in the pipe poured in a liter(pint) of acid. Threaded on the cap and rolled it around on the ground every 10 mins. for an hour or so. Propped up the end, poured in soapy water with baking soda, 'bout 2 gallons, roll, drain, repeat, then a clean water rinse and wipe dry. Nice clean metal with very little work or time and no hazardous disposal.I'd do it again in a heart beat. I still use the pipe for putting my rod stock in when I pick it up and it's raining! Just an FYI200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Originally Posted by bert the welderI can appreciate your looking out for the kids( though my inner bad person screams " natural selection" ......... go thing I haven't kids of my own!)Anywho...............I'll through this out there for any one that can use Murriatic acid. I had bought a large quantity of surface rusted 1/4 round bar. Needed to clean them and didn't want to do it one at a time. Went to the local commercial sewer pipe supplier and got 11' of 6" green sewer pipe (off cut for beer fund cash), a cap end and a threaded cap end. Glue them up (they even let me use their glue so I wouldn't have to buy a bottle for just two ends).Put the 1/4" stock in the pipe poured in a liter(pint) of acid. Threaded on the cap and rolled it around on the ground every 10 mins. for an hour or so. Propped up the end, poured in soapy water with baking soda, 'bout 2 gallons, roll, drain, repeat, then a clean water rinse and wipe dry. Nice clean metal with very little work or time and no hazardous disposal.I'd do it again in a heart beat. I still use the pipe for putting my rod stock in when I pick it up and it's raining! Just an FYI
Reply:No problem Darthwelder, might be worth a try on some of your tubing just for kicks.  I have had good luck with it & not much issue with it missing much of the area, But have never tried it on long sections of pipe or tubing with the intent on getting the inside clean.  However seems it has always removed pretty much all the rust inside & out for meI stand behind my welding, I just won't stand under it!
Reply:Originally Posted by unknownNo problem Darthwelder, might be worth a try on some of your tubing just for kicks.  I have had good luck with it & not much issue with it missing much of the area, But have never tried it on long sections of pipe or tubing with the intent on getting the inside clean.  However seems it has always removed pretty much all the rust inside & out for me
Reply:Sorry I am at work and got busy.  I use a larg battery charger, somewhere i was reading a web page where a guy used a welder as the power source & removed the rust from a trailer frame.  Yes I have used this on pipe, but nothing over probably three feet long it was an old homemade jig thingy i was playing with.  I had to run it threw twice but it did a very nice job inside & out.  However I had never used it intentionally to remove rust from the inside of a long pipe may turn out as angusdog stated not sure.  good luck & hope you let us know how it turns outI stand behind my welding, I just won't stand under it!
Reply:also wonder if you could somehow rig the electrode to fit inside the tubing & not touch.  maybe this would help if it is line of sight as angusdog stated.I stand behind my welding, I just won't stand under it!
Reply:You could cap one end, and fill it with vinegar instead of acid.  I just purchased a '34 Chevy Pickup for a hot rod project, and have been spending some time on some other boards lately.  A lot of those guys build tanks to fill with vinegar to clean entire body panels with 70+ years of rust on them.  Some also use feed store molasses mixed with water in a 1:7 ratio, but they say that can take weeks rather than hours for the vinegar.  The bonus is vinegar is cheap and reuseable.
Reply:To clean rusty M.S. pipe inside and out, I (inexpensively) bought a liter of 85% phosphoric acid on a website specializing in bio-diesel manufacturing reagents, diluted a small portion of it to 20% strength with pure (R.O.) water and put it in a capped one end length of pvc pipe sufficiently long to accommodate my rusty steel pipe.  I immersed the very rusty pipe in the acid and let it work overnight.  Dralned and rinsed, I wire brushed/rinsed out the inside, treated, rinsed and brushed it again.  The acid doesn't really neutralize appreciably during this process and can be used over and over.  Unlike muriatic acid, phosphoric acid does not encourage further rusting of the steel.The phosphoric acid converted the iron oxide that was in/on the pipe to black iron phosphate which is actually a rust inhibitor.  Once all the red rust was converted to the black phosphate, I rinsed, dried it and used it for my project.  Just one guy's experience.  Good luck.ScottMiller XMT 350 CC/CV w/gas solenoid opt.Miller S-22A wirefeederBernard 400A "Q" gunMiller Spoolmatic 30A / WC-24C-K 200A torch/gas lensWeldcraft WC-18 watercooled torchHypertherm Powermax 30Victor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by Travis KYou could cap one end, and fill it with vinegar instead of acid.  I just purchased a '34 Chevy Pickup for a hot rod project, and have been spending some time on some other boards lately.  A lot of those guys build tanks to fill with vinegar to clean entire body panels with 70+ years of rust on them.  Some also use feed store molasses mixed with water in a 1:7 ratio, but they say that can take weeks rather than hours for the vinegar.  The bonus is vinegar is cheap and reuseable.
Reply:Originally Posted by DmaxerTo clean rusty M.S. pipe inside and out, I (inexpensively) bought a liter of 85% phosphoric acid on a website specializing in bio-diesel manufacturing reagents, diluted a small portion of it to 20% strength with pure (R.O.) water and put it in a capped one end length of pvc pipe sufficiently long to accommodate my rusty steel pipe.  I immersed the very rusty pipe in the acid and let it work overnight.  Dralned and rinsed, I wire brushed/rinsed out the inside, treated, rinsed and brushed it again.  The acid doesn't really neutralize appreciably during this process and can be used over and over.  Unlike muriatic acid, phosphoric acid does not encourage further rusting of the steel.The phosphoric acid converted the iron oxide that was in/on the pipe to black iron phosphate which is actually a rust inhibitor.  Once all the red rust was converted to the black phosphate, I rinsed, dried it and used it for my project.  Just one guy's experience.  Good luck.
Reply:Originally Posted by unknownSorry I am at work and got busy.  I use a larg battery charger, somewhere i was reading a web page where a guy used a welder as the power source & removed the rust from a trailer frame.  Yes I have used this on pipe, but nothing over probably three feet long it was an old homemade jig thingy i was playing with.  I had to run it threw twice but it did a very nice job inside & out.  However I had never used it intentionally to remove rust from the inside of a long pipe may turn out as angusdog stated not sure.  good luck & hope you let us know how it turns out
Reply:Originally Posted by DmaxerTo clean rusty M.S. pipe inside and out, I (inexpensively) bought a liter of 85% phosphoric acid on a website specializing in bio-diesel manufacturing reagents, diluted a small portion of it to 20% strength with pure (R.O.) water and put it in a capped one end length of pvc pipe sufficiently long to accommodate my rusty steel pipe.  I immersed the very rusty pipe in the acid and let it work overnight.  Dralned and rinsed, I wire brushed/rinsed out the inside, treated, rinsed and brushed it again.  The acid doesn't really neutralize appreciably during this process and can be used over and over.  Unlike muriatic acid, phosphoric acid does not encourage further rusting of the steel.The phosphoric acid converted the iron oxide that was in/on the pipe to black iron phosphate which is actually a rust inhibitor.  Once all the red rust was converted to the black phosphate, I rinsed, dried it and used it for my project.  Just one guy's experience.  Good luck.
Reply:It sounds like you have it worked out. If you try it let us know I stand behind my welding, I just won't stand under it!
Reply:Originally Posted by darthwelderI was thinking that a long piece of carbon steel wire, strung through the middle of a pipe and made taught with turnbuckles might serve as the positive anode.  As long as it is centered and not touching the pipe.  I was thinking of using PVC caps on each end, drilled threw the mid/center for the wire to pass through. then attach the positive cable to the wire....the negative to the pipe.  This way....all the current is INSIDE a circular area and will escape threw vent holes drilled into the pvc caps.  at worst...I blow up a walmart charger, and trip a circuit breaker.( i'll use a GFCI outlet for the charger).jeez....could this work?
Reply:Never tried this so it's just an idea...maybe a boiler tube cleaning set up with wire brush. I'm sure it would work good on round pipe but not so sure on square tube.I work in a chemical plant....phos acid is some bad stuff. It does what it does really good but it is dangerous. I would suggest staying away from it unless you've got fairly well controlled conditions and have some experience with chemicals. AlA man is judged by what's between his legs...always ride a good horseMiller DialArc HFLincoln Classic 300DThermal Arc 181iPowermax 45Scotchman Ironworker(2) BridgeportsOkomota Surface GrinderAutoCAD 2010
Reply:Hey darth,You again post another issue, rusty surplus steel restored to almost "new" condition,  that you think will solve your problems for a project. No matter what you attempt, the rust is not goin' away....it's a process of continuing deterioration. You ask for suggestions on how to clean it, willing to spend $$$ on chemicals, containers, & apparatus to dissolve the rust, when, by utilizing "common sense", the easiest & most economical solution is to just simply go & buy new material. Too simple, huh?DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Not necessarily common sense with your approach if you see a lot of rusty free / cheap metal in your future and this knowledge / initial investment will help you in the future.
Reply:yorkiepap,I couldn't agree with you more.  I've done several projects using "slightly" rusted steel or plain hot rolled (read "mill scale") steel and some using clean, shiny HR P&O.  The HR P&O wins hands down.  The cost in chemicals, consumables, and labor to reclaim rusty scrap or strip the scale off plain HR is just not justified.  The end result is less than desired....but I have to admit I'm somewhat a perfectionist.I'm building some steel drawers now using HR P&O and they're coming out beautiful.  Nice, clean welds....no beebee's.  Minimum prep for paint...just soap, water, scotchbrite and solvent wash and they're ready for primer.I notice that the really nice projects I see on this board (ala ZTFab and 4Shorts) are done using new, clean steel.  Should tell ya something.Not to say that weathered, backyard scrap doesn't have it's place for the occasional fixture or maybe BBQ pit but for a "nice" project you just can't beat the good stuff.darthwelder,One other thought...have you considered getting this stuff sandblasted?  You might check around and get some budget pricing.Also, I've used acid to clean steel....muriatic (swimming pool) acid.  It cleans mill scale and rust off in just a few minutes but will corrode everything it (or it's vapors) touch and you will get vapors in your eyes, nose and lungs and that's not fun.Miller 211 w/ spool gunMiller Dynasty 200DXLongevity 60i IGBT plasmaO/A w/ crappy chinese torch/gaugesSouth Bend 10K latheGrizzly 4029 10x54 millGrizzly 7x12 hor bandsawangle grnders, bench grnder, bench belt sndr7.5 hp 80gal cmprsor
Reply:If you don't include time, it's a cheap way to get steel for a project. You don't always have to count everything on the clock. Especially when you're working/doing it for yourself. Time doesn't cost money. It's just time. A lot of people have the stuff sitting around to do the electrolysis cleaning, so why not. New steel rusts just like old, cleaned up steel. It's metal. It rusts. I've never prescribed to the thought that everything you do has to be "on the clock" per say, if you're working for yourself.200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.Originally Posted by unknownIt sounds like you have it worked out. If you try it let us know
Reply:Originally Posted by bcrewcaptaindon't overthink the electrolysis method, get a piece of rebar rougly the same length as the pipe you're trying to clean, center it in the pipe and go. even a small charger should get it done overnight.
Reply:Originally Posted by SmokinPRanchNever tried this so it's just an idea...maybe a boiler tube cleaning set up with wire brush. I'm sure it would work good on round pipe but not so sure on square tube.I work in a chemical plant....phos acid is some bad stuff. It does what it does really good but it is dangerous. I would suggest staying away from it unless you've got fairly well controlled conditions and have some experience with chemicals. Al
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey darth,You again post another issue, rusty surplus steel restored to almost "new" condition,  that you think will solve your problems for a project. No matter what you attempt, the rust is not goin' away....it's a process of continuing deterioration. You ask for suggestions on how to clean it, willing to spend $$$ on chemicals, containers, & apparatus to dissolve the rust, when, by utilizing "common sense", the easiest & most economical solution is to just simply go & buy new material. Too simple, huh?Denny
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey darth,You again post another issue, rusty surplus steel restored to almost "new" condition,  that you think will solve your problems for a project. No matter what you attempt, the rust is not goin' away....it's a process of continuing deterioration. You ask for suggestions on how to clean it, willing to spend $$$ on chemicals, containers, & apparatus to dissolve the rust, when, by utilizing "common sense", the easiest & most economical solution is to just simply go & buy new material. Too simple, huh?Denny
Reply:here is a quick shot of the electrolysis method from one of my "projects"thats 6 hrs in the tank...
Reply:Originally Posted by bcrewcaptainhere is a quick shot of the electrolysis method from one of my "projects"thats 6 hrs in the tank...
Reply:if you look close in the can you can see what I used for the anode....the skin of a water heater, surrounds the entire can making for 360* coverage, works a lot better then the scrap steel/rebar that I was using before.
Reply:Originally Posted by bcrewcaptainif you look close in the can you can see what I used for the anode....the skin of a water heater, surrounds the entire can making for 360* coverage, works a lot better then the scrap steel/rebar that I was using before.
Reply:Ok..... I went out to the garage and shot some photos of steel pieces that closely resemble that quality of the stuff i can get in this scrap yard.  I hope it uploads....here they are...IT WORKED!! Attached Images
Reply:Hey darth,You, again, go into "defensive" mode when someone responds to your posting that you feel is "picking" on you. You need to get a grip on some reality & not "read into" a response.First, your initial post stated "needs to be kinda clean on the inside". "Clean" metal doesn't have rust. Clean on the inside would indicate you would not find favor with inside rusted material, so that would indicate new metal would be preferable since rusting is a continual process that will simply continue. Yes, the cost of new has risen quite significantly in the last year, & I can understand the benefits of maintaining a low cost level by using somewhat deteriorated steel.....simple economics, right? I have used rusted steel many times for projects & even for customer requests to minimize costs. There is nothing wrong with usable material to an extent, especially if stress or pressure is not involved....common sense. If you would have described in your initial post, "even in the state this particular pipe is in, it is more than adequate." then I probably would not have responded since you would have illustrated your own satisfaction to the material.Next, I did not indicate in any manner, of attempting to make rusted material "new" as you stated. Then you, right away, question I was "predisposed" of being hostile......REALLY? Care to elaborate to the forum HOW? My response was to your "need" to have "clean" steel for your project. Nothing more....nothing less. You have a penchant to alter a response to fit your own interpretation & not the simple response it was. I don't come here to get into "pi$$ing matches with anyone.....simply too old for kids' stuff. I come here to pass on experience with welding processes, materials, applications, & many projects to enhance the youngsters/newbies knowledge. If you have doubts, you are most welcome to read my threads & responses in their entirety to see if I come here to "pick" on anyone & if my postings have any value at all. In addition, also please describe to all the forum members how my response was: "making inferences, assumptions of ignorance, or name calling" since you used my name directly with the response.  BTW,  my eyes were opened decades before you were even a twinkle in your parents' eyes, so please don't even go there. I did Production Design over 40yrs & that is the essence of cost savings/effectiveness w/material & labor costs in a production environment for exactly the reason you illustrate..... saving the almighty $$$.Now, if you can't get a grip on the real world adult communications arena with some simple thought & not exaggerate a persons' intent, take a tangent college class on "Public Communication" that may serve you since you indicate you are in college. Believe me, I do "play nice". You haven't seen the "dark side".DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Originally Posted by bcrewcaptainhere is a quick shot of the electrolysis method from one of my "projects"thats 6 hrs in the tank...
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey darth,You, again, go into "defensive" mode when someone responds to your posting that you feel is "picking" on you. You need to get a grip on some reality & not "read into" a response.First, your initial post stated "needs to be kinda clean on the inside". "Clean" metal doesn't have rust. Clean on the inside would indicate you would not find favor with inside rusted material, so that would indicate new metal would be preferable since rusting is a continual process that will simply continue. Yes, the cost of new has risen quite significantly in the last year, & I can understand the benefits of maintaining a low cost level by using somewhat deteriorated steel.....simple economics, right? I have used rusted steel many times for projects & even for customer requests to minimize costs. There is nothing wrong with usable material to an extent, especially if stress or pressure is not involved....common sense. If you would have described in your initial post, "even in the state this particular pipe is in, it is more than adequate." then I probably would not have responded since you would have illustrated your own satisfaction to the material.Next, I did not indicate in any manner, of attempting to make rusted material "new" as you stated. Then you, right away, question I was "predisposed" of being hostile......REALLY? Care to elaborate to the forum HOW? My response was to your "need" to have "clean" steel for your project. Nothing more....nothing less. You have a penchant to alter a response to fit your own interpretation & not the simple response it was. I don't come here to get into "pi$$ing matches with anyone.....simply too old for kids' stuff. I come here to pass on experience with welding processes, materials, applications, & many projects to enhance the youngsters/newbies knowledge. If you have doubts, you are most welcome to read my threads & responses in their entirety to see if I come here to "pick" on anyone & if my postings have any value at all. In addition, also please describe to all the forum members how my response was: "making inferences, assumptions of ignorance, or name calling" since you used my name directly with the response.  BTW,  my eyes were opened decades before you were even a twinkle in your parents' eyes, so please don't even go there. I did Production Design over 40yrs & that is the essence of cost savings/effectiveness w/material & labor costs in a production environment for exactly the reason you illustrate..... saving the almighty $$$.Now, if you can't get a grip on the real world adult communications arena with some simple thought & not exaggerate a persons' intent, take a tangent college class on "Public Communication" that may serve you since you indicate you are in college. Believe me, I do "play nice". You haven't seen the "dark side".Denny
Reply:Hey darth,Again, you are reading & interpreting for you own reason. As far as not posting to ANY thread, that would really be quite unfair to everyone since there is much mis-information disseminated throughout many responses. The forum is for everyone to have a chance to express agreement or disagreement that pertains to factual information. If myself, or anyone else knows a response is false, invalid, or misrepresented, & such data could cause an injury, why should silence be engaged. Make some sense. Don't keep projecting to anyone to stay out of a thread with a response just because you don't find favor with their response.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Originally Posted by darthwelderCPT..!!!    wait a sec......I know Im not the quickest brain in the galaxy...but did that bath also REMOVE ALL THE PAINT off that piece?     If so...OMFG.....do I have a bucket load of ideas now.  And if so...I see a plastic horse trough from Tractor Supply in my near future.   Ok...why?      I do charity work for disadvantaged kids in the last quarter of the year.  I help take old bicycles and make them as nice as possible for Christmas presents.  No child should ever suffer on Christmas morning.  If this process strips rust as well as paint.....we guys who do this can strip dozens of bikes in a third the time we spend hitting them with sand blasters and grinders.  not to mention, if the electrolysis does inside the tubes, it probably does all the corners and tight places as well....my head is swimming.   We try hard to do 200 bicycles each year....cost is a big factor.  IF this works...it will cut time as well as costs...allowing us to buy more bikes for the kids and clean them faster, better and cheaper!!   Oh Lord PLEASE....I want this to work.  I LOVE watching the kids ride their bikes....It makes me happy to put smiles on kids faces.  This year we only got 127 bikes done....the economy hurt us all real bad.
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey darth,Again, you are reading & interpreting for you own reason. As far as not posting to ANY thread, that would really be quite unfair to everyone since there is much mis-information disseminated throughout many responses. The forum is for everyone to have a chance to express agreement or disagreement that pertains to factual information. If myself, or anyone else knows a response is false, invalid, or misrepresented, & such data could cause an injury, why should silence be engaged. Make some sense. Don't keep projecting to anyone to stay out of a thread with a response just because you don't find favor with their response.Denny
Reply:Originally Posted by bcrewcaptainit'll take the paint off if it's not stuck on too well/has rust starting under it. It will soften it some regardless.Try freecycle if you have that locally for the water heater skin, or some old barn roof or something along those lines, surface area is your friend. for a bike, a feed trough would work fine, just place the bike on a couple 1x1's or something to keep it from contacting the anode and you're good to go...can't get much cheaper than that, wipe it down with a scotch pad and call it a day.
Reply:Darth,First mistake you made is thinking you can tell any poster what they can or cannot respond to on a message board.  If you can't accept that, then you need to get the heck off this board and start your own where you have censorship.Second mistake is underestimating the knowledge base of some of the long term members on this board.As far as this thread goes, I'm just sitting back laughing, watching you make a fool of yourself.  Once the "experiment" is over, I'll tell you why.With that said, please proceed.PS:  You sure are arrogant to know so little about so many things.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey darth,You again post another issue, rusty surplus steel restored to almost "new" condition,  that you think will solve your problems for a project. No matter what you attempt, the rust is not goin' away....it's a process of continuing deterioration. You ask for suggestions on how to clean it, willing to spend $$$ on chemicals, containers, & apparatus to dissolve the rust, when, by utilizing "common sense", the easiest & most economical solution is to just simply go & buy new material. Too simple, huh?Denny
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIDarth,First mistake you made is thinking you can tell any poster what they can or cannot respond to on a message board.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIDarth,First mistake you made is thinking you can tell any poster what they can or cannot respond to on a message board.  If you can't accept that, then you need to get the heck off this board and start your own where you have censorship.Second mistake is underestimating the knowledge base of some of the long term members on this board.As far as this thread goes, I'm just sitting back laughing, watching you make a fool of yourself.  Once the "experiment" is over, I'll tell you why.With that said, please proceed.PS:  You sure are arrogant to know so little about so many things.
Reply:To everyone who has posted on this thread or read it,   I am truly sorry if the actions and words of a few people are taking away any enjoyment you might have gotten out of this.  I posted this thread originally to share and garner  some info about rust removal from inside tubes and pipes....now its a word fight with a new moderator and his buddy.I have offered several times to make peace with these 2 ...but they delight in bickering and  fighting, and therefore refuse any type of goodwill.  If you think Im wrong.....just look up the posts by SunDownIII and read for yourself how rude he can be to others.  I for one have never found attitudes like this acceptable in any arena.  When I see it, especially if it is aimed at myself...I tend to fire back.  I can give as well as take in this regard.  But it has come to my attention that others are now being negatively affected.  Its one thing when a member is of bad attitude, another when its a sponsered moderator who has the power to ban or sanction. I do not want anyone to be banned for argueing against these 2.Therefore, I would ask anyone who feels the same as I do....to contact the owner of this website...not the moderators, we are beyond that now, and let them know just how you feel.  I have done so myself already.  I hope soon that a decision will be made as to how to handle this.  I for one would rather NOT be a member here, if every time I ask for information....I had to endure insults, name calling and condescension  to get it.  I treat others with respect, I accept their input, and even if I disagree...I do so respectfully.  I would expect no less of others.  Therefore, it is my full intention that I make the owner of this website aware of just how a few bad apples are causing grief for others.In the meantime....PLEASE, do not in any way engage these 2 in flaming or bickering.  Let the owner of the website decide if he wants this type of conduct from his moderator and members.  If you feel the need to share your views of this, do so with the owner of the site Frank Chloupek, his contact info is on his tab.Until this is settled, again; I apologize for the inconveinence...and for the misery.  I hope it will be taken care of soon.Best regards to all....JD
Reply:x2PM'd you JDBert Originally Posted by darthwelderTo everyone who has posted on this thread or read it,   I am truly sorry if the actions and words of a few people are taking away any enjoyment you might have gotten out of this.  I posted this thread originally to share and garner  some info about rust removal from inside tubes and pipes....now its a word fight with a new moderator and his buddy.I have offered several times to make peace with these 2 ...but they delight in bickering and  fighting, and therefore refuse any type of goodwill.  If you think Im wrong.....just look up the posts by SunDownIII and read for yourself how rude he can be to others.  I for one have never found attitudes like this acceptable in any arena.  When I see it, especially if it is aimed at myself...I tend to fire back.  I can give as well as take in this regard.  But it has come to my attention that others are now being negatively affected.  Its one thing when a member is of bad attitude, another when its a sponsered moderator who has the power to ban or sanction. I do not want anyone to be banned for argueing against these 2.Therefore, I would ask anyone who feels the same as I do....to contact the owner of this website...not the moderators, we are beyond that now, and let them know just how you feel.  I have done so myself already.  I hope soon that a decision will be made as to how to handle this.  I for one would rather NOT be a member here, if every time I ask for information....I had to endure insults, name calling and condescension  to get it.  I treat others with respect, I accept their input, and even if I disagree...I do so respectfully.  I would expect no less of others.  Therefore, it is my full intention that I make the owner of this website aware of just how a few bad apples are causing grief for others.In the meantime....PLEASE, do not in any way engage these 2 in flaming or bickering.  Let the owner of the website decide if he wants this type of conduct from his moderator and members.  If you feel the need to share your views of this, do so with the owner of the site Frank Chloupek, his contact info is on his tab.Until this is settled, again; I apologize for the inconveinence...and for the misery.  I hope it will be taken care of soon.Best regards to all....JD
Reply:LMAOGuess there will always be disagreements between people who know what they're talking about and those who don't know squat (but try to BS others into thinking they do) and are "NICE" in the way they do it.Mr. BERT:I'd suggest you go back to Darthwelder's FIRST post on WW.In it you'll see that HE had already decided who should respond to his posts on this board.In your eyes I guess you feel it's better to be NICE and DUMB, than it is to be informed and direct.  I'm sure the new guys will learn a lot from the nice and dumb crowd.Maybe you should consider knitting vs welding although I've heard those gals can be pretty rough around the edges also.  The "welding trade" is made up of a lot of guys who "made their bones" thru the school of hard knocks.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIILMAOGuess there will always be disagreements between people who know what they're talking about and those who don't know squat (but try to BS others into thinking they do) and are "NICE" in the way they do it.Mr. BERT:I'd suggest you go back to Darthwelder's FIRST post on WW.In it you'll see that HE had already decided who should respond to his posts on this board.In your eyes I guess you feel it's better to be NICE and DUMB, than it is to be informed and direct.  I'm sure the new guys will learn a lot from the nice and dumb crowd.Maybe you should consider knitting vs welding although I've heard those gals can be pretty rough around the edges also.  The "welding trade" is made up of a lot of guys who "made their bones" thru the school of hard knocks.