New (to me) P&H machine

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I have been offered a P&H TIG machine for free if i come pick it up. It comes with the water cooler, torch, foot pedal, and tank. Supposedly it has been sitting outside covered by a tarp!The guy says its was used to weld aluminum carts and frames at grumman and is a 1 phase 220 volt unit. I know there is a wide variety of models and such, but when i finally get her home what should I look for and is a machine like this a good stepping stone into the TIG world? and with welding aluminum?Any source for more info? Where would i be able to get consumables? Thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitectI have been offered a P&H TIG machine. . .. . .Any source for more info?
Reply:Free?  You havent picked it up yet??It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:Haha, hes busy this week but i'm calling at 12:01 Monday morning!!! I always see you guys getting good deals and thought it never happens to me, well lets hope this works out!Now who wants to comeover and teach me how to use it! LOLlooking into taking a course at Airweld
Reply:oh the only catch is he said if he needs something welded he would ask me to weld it for him
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitectNow who wants to comeover and teach me how to use it! LOL
Reply:updated the user info  will get some pics when i pick up the machine...figure I'll put a little elbow grease to clean her up and paint, since its been outside under a big shelving unit and tarp its probably a little rusty
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitectI have been offered a P&H TIG machine for free if i come pick it up. It comes with the water cooler, torch, foot pedal, and tank. Supposedly it has been sitting outside covered by a tarp!The guy says its was used to weld aluminum carts and frames at grumman and is a 1 phase 220 volt unit. I know there is a wide variety of models and such, but when i finally get her home what should I look for and is a machine like this a good stepping stone into the TIG world? and with welding aluminum?Any source for more info? Where would i be able to get consumables? Thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr. . .If it was a Grumman machine maintenance probably put the setting in magic marker somewhere in there. . .
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepWMJ - Just curious. Do you know the model of machines whuch replaced the P&H welders at Grumman?Can you guess how many they had?Good luck
Reply:Finally got the welder, here are a few pics...got a ton of stuff with it ie the pedal 2 torches, hoses, water pump, and got to go back for the tank.some pics
Reply:For free I'd take it too but it appears to be 3 phase.  Cooler and pump should be 115vac/1ph so that's a plus along with the torch and all the accessories which still makes it a good score.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:definately a good score!
Reply:Its a 1 phase, but he gave me the 3 phase cut off switch for what ever reason...turns out there were 3 torches in the box. 2 are marked  (linde hw 20 and hw9)  just need some tungsten, and consumables ...and i'm going to set up the water pump with a small radiator i have laying around for the water cooler.Anyone have any manuals on this machine?
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitectIts a 1 phase, but he gave me the 3 phase cut off switch for what ever reason...turns out there were 3 torches in the box. 2 are marked  (linde hw 20 and hw9)  just need some tungsten, and consumables ...and i'm going to set up the water pump with a small radiator i have laying around for the water cooler.Anyone have any manuals on this machine?
Reply:got her up and running, well stick welding any way! She stick welds nice has PLENTY of power and burns smooth.However, I got my argon, collets tungsten, etc. today to try the TIG...fired her up, the gas runs for about 5 seconds then stops (connected via the solenoid on the machine) and i cant get an arc.I tried AC and DC and with the HF on auto and continuous, soft start on. the water i have flowing directly to the torch hose and returned out the powered hose.Could this be a HF problem...i have no specs to set the gap...how would i test?thanks
Reply:Cleaned her up this weekend...You can see I started making the cooler, from a 50 cal. ammo can and the pump and motor I got with the machine. It looks like there is a hook up for the water pump that was connected to the 230v in (i didn't connect it yet) it runs through fuses and what looks like a contacter and then out to 115v. Is this good to use for the cooler?
Reply:Wiring Schematic that was inside the back panel, took some pictures as its fragile and I didn;t think it would hold up to moving it around while sanding and painting.
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitect. . .I tried AC and DC and with the HF on auto and continuous. . .
Reply:MetalArchitect,I'm not familiar with this particular machine, so this is just from looking at your posted schematic for a few minutes.First things first, I wonder if  Control Ttransformer  and Main Transformer are jumped for the correct input voltage?If I were troubleshooting for no HF malfunction, I think I would first check for current at Phase Shift Rheostat; the schematic shows that with Contactor Contacts closed,  PSR should show voltage to Input Line terminal 4. TD1 would also be on my suspect component  list.Good Luck
Reply:Thanks denrep, I'll try out your suggestions when i get home later
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitectThanks denrep, I'll try out your suggestions when i get home later
Reply:One thing we try not to do, but sometimes I even forget myself. And that is not to hang, the torch on the bottles. Just good practice. TIG or MIG.Power goes out, you hang the torch where you always do over the tank. And then you forget it when the power comes on. Or you unplug the machine, and someone else turns it on, gets nothing and plugs it in or throws the switch. Most of our tanks are grounded to the carts.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Thanks for for the help , sent you a PM WMCjr.hopefully i'll have some time to mess with this tomorrow, after i finish up the cart and figure out how i'm going to get this off the trailer its on
Reply:Latest!!!I opened the side panel and turned the machine on, while in "inert gas welding" mode the contactor does not move and make contact, this does not seem right!?!?when i flip the switch to "metallic welding" I the contactor moves and i can see the sparks flying between the HF points...should the contactor move in both modes?? what would cause it not to move ?thanksOriginally Posted by MetalArchitectLatest!!!I opened the side panel and turned the machine on, while in "inert gas welding" mode the contactor does not move and make contact, this does not seem right!?!?when i flip the switch to "metallic welding" I the contactor moves and i can see the sparks flying between the HF points...should the contactor move in both modes?? what would cause it not to move ?thanks
Reply:no the contactor does not close when the controls are set to panel control, Cont. HF and inert gas mode...
Reply:Since the contactor closes in Stick mode, but not in TIG, we can narrow the trouble down to the area of the circuit circled in yellow.Attachment 37877I think I would bet a hunch and start testing by jumping timer  TD1's terminals together.Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 10-19-2010 at 11:42 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitectLatest!!!I opened the side panel and turned the machine on, while in "inert gas welding" mode the contactor does not move and make contact, this does not seem right!?!?when i flip the switch to "metallic welding" I the contactor moves and i can see the sparks flying between the HF points...should the contactor move in both modes?? what would cause it not to move ?thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrThat seems right to me. You have to put the machine into remote and then see if the pedal starts it. . . .
Reply:WMCjr.- I thought you could use the machine without the pedal, with the switch to panel control!?! But i do not have HF sparks or contactor making a connecting when switched in Panel control.I have not hooked the pedal in yet......I will jump the pedal control terminals to make sure the machine does think i still want to use the pedal.The timers seem to make noise and it does control the gas flow
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitect . . .I thought you could use the machine without the pedal, with the switch to panel control!?!
Reply:OK so i guess either way i have to have the foot pedal plugged in...I'll fix the wiring and try it out tomorrow!thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitectOK so i guess either way i have to have the foot pedal plugged in...I'll fix the wiring and try it out tomorrow!thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepNope, not according to the posted schematic.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepNope, not according to the posted schematic.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrDenrep that schematic you highlighted is just showing the S7 switch to turn on and off the high frequency. The remote and panel are not effected and do not effect this. The S9 the panel control/remote control switch will turn the welder on and off. With or without the pedal if set to panel control. And you can TIG without a pedal.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepSince the contactor closes in Stick mode, but not in TIG, we can narrow the trouble down to the area of the circuit circled in yellow. . . .
Reply:Originally Posted by denrep. . .To me it seems that the partial circuit I posted is what energizes the main contactor coil. And with S7 set at "inert gas" I don't see any way to energize the contactor coil without connecting the two remote receptacle terminals that are highlighted with the yellow lines.
Reply:I plugged the pedal in and the TIG .... WORKS on remote control! the only thing i still have no "panel" control, the pedal still controls the tig even in panel mode.oh well at least i can start welding now, going to use the pedal mostly anyway.Thanks WMCjr and denrep for all your help!
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitectI plugged the pedal in and the TIG .... WORKS on remote control! the only thing i still have no "panel" control, the pedal still controls the tig even in panel mode. . . .
Reply:Its funny thats its that simple...I just thought "Panel control" meant exactly that, and why would you need the pedal! I guess the pedal on these machines really are a required item, and thats why they are pretty hard to come by!
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitectIts funny thats its that simple...I just thought "Panel control" meant exactly that, and why would you need the pedal! I guess the pedal on these machines really are a required item, and thats why they are pretty hard to come by!
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitectIts funny thats its that simple...I just thought "Panel control" meant exactly that, and why would you need the pedal! I guess the pedal on these machines really are a required item, and thats why they are pretty hard to come by!
Reply:Hey Guys , I  have a 1962 P&H dar-300hfgw that I have been playing with for a while , my wire dia.is in very good shape as the rest of the machine .Does anyone have a manual for this machine ?Also I am playing with the TIG for Aluminum and can't get it just rite , how should I set the Phase Shift ?what does it do ?I am in Central CT , I see one of you is in Long Island ,  I am out in Eastern LI during the summer , Are you close to Greenport ?Dale
Reply:Mr. McCormick Jr,I see that you have a lot of older Linde parts.  If you ever happen to come across an extra gauge block (4-gauges showing volts & amps) that goes on top of a Linde/Union Carbide HDA-300, I'd be happy to purchase it from you.  I've been trying to find one for a while now to make my welder complete.Thanks.Linde/Union Carbide HDA-300Hobart RC-250Lincoln AC-225Lincoln WeldPak 100 Hobart Stickmate LX Victor OxyAcetylene
Reply:I will keep my eyes open for one. You can buy the gauges yourself. They still sell used certified analog amp, and volt meters that will read 0-600 amps. They have them in any volt range.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:I'm sorry to kind of thread-jack, but I also just got a similar P&H TIG welder (looks pretty much identical), and the post flow control does not work. The machine starts nice and runs a great bead (in both AC and DC), but the water and Argon shut off when the arc is broken.Does anyone know where I can get a new post flow control unit? or better yet, does anyone have a testing protocol I can use to determine if the unit is bad in the first place
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalArchitectI have been offered a P&H TIG machine for free if i come pick it up. It comes with the water cooler, torch, foot pedal, and tank. Supposedly it has been sitting outside covered by a tarp!The guy says its was used to weld aluminum carts and frames at grumman and is a 1 phase 220 volt unit. I know there is a wide variety of models and such, but when i finally get her home what should I look for and is a machine like this a good stepping stone into the TIG world? and with welding aluminum?Any source for more info? Where would i be able to get consumables? Thanks
Reply:Already picked it up...Pics are on page one! I love the machine TIGs nice and stick welds great. And it hasn't tripped my breakers yet! I can actually weld at higher amps with this machine without any problems than with my Hobart 140 set at max.