How different do 7018s weld, compared to 6013s

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Until a few months ago I didn't really focus on the different types of welding rods, not until I got very frustrated with beading up & slag inclusions with the 6013s I was using. Now I've got quite a few different packets - 6012, 6013, 7016 (like 7018 but without the iron powder addition), and my beloved 6011s.The 7016 & 7018 rods are classed as medium penetration, as are the 6012 & 6013 rods. Is this too much of a generalisation, and will the 7016/18 rods give better penetration. The reason I'm asking this is because I've heard many times welders end up using just 6011 and 7018 rods. They may not need the strength of the 7018 rods but they reckon they weld much better than the basic 6013 rods (which I've noticed a few people hate).I haven't tried my 7016 rods yet because I'm not opening the packets until I've made some air tight containers for them. Then I'm going to recondition them straight out of the packet and immediately store them in the airtight containers, which will be purged with argon. I've heard so many pros say that even the basic shrink wrapping on new packs is not enough to guarantee the rods are completely free of moisture.
Reply:I don't think you need air-tight containers for the typical welding rod - just low-hydrogen rods (like 7018).  I keep 7014, 6011 in open containers in the shop and they seem to run just fine.Hobart LX235Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)Bobcat 773F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailerOutdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year
Reply:Originally Posted by gwileyI don't think you need air-tight containers for the typical welding rod - just low-hydrogen rods (like 7018).  I keep 7014, 6011 in open containers in the shop and they seem to run just fine.
Reply:A good 7018 like Excalibur will weld beautiful and with a low learning curve compared to 6013.  A cheapo 7018 (Hobart)  will run like fidos butt and you'll curse while throwing rod. Try some 7024 or 7014 rod.Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller Spectrum 250DMiller Millermatic 200Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....
Reply:Originally Posted by jontheturboguyA good 7018 like Excalibur will weld beautiful and with a low learning curve compared to 6013.  A cheapo 7018 (Hobart)  will run like fidos butt and you'll curse while throwing rod. Try some 7024 or 7014 rod.
Reply:Originally Posted by BlauSchuhcurse you! hahah, i just bought 5 pounds of hobart 7018 last week.please describe why hobart sucks balls
Reply:Thanks for the replies lads.I'll only be keeping LH rods in airtight containers purged with argon gas. My 6011 rods actually need a bit of moisture in them so I'd be killing them if I "reconditioned" them and put them in airtight containers.Interesting about a good 7018 being easier to weld than a 6013. I am learning to only go with good quality rods as I try more out. Strange enough I've read a couple of older posts on this forum and the guys were saying they couldn't stand the Excalibur rods. I wonder if the flux has been revised since than or they had rods which were in need of a recondition. I have read that some LH rods give porosity problems even when in good condition.Nobody's mentioned yet about penetration. Anybody think 7016 or 18s "burn in" better than 6013s. I've heard a lot about the 7014 rods being recommended but they are classed as a LOW penetration rod (might start a separate thread on fusion & penetration).
Reply:I love the excalibur 7018, its amazing how well these rods run. Light brown slag that you can just slide your next rod accross to remove the slag in almost one piece. I also love the fleetweld 5p+ from the same comany (lincoln).
Reply:Pipeliner 5p+ (I think) will actually make you enjoy running 6010.Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller Spectrum 250DMiller Millermatic 200Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....
Reply:I think you're referring to the Pipemaster 5p+.  Very similar to the 6010 5p+.
Reply:The burn in with 7018 is more then 6013. Another rod to try is atomic arc from Esab, in my opinion it runs better then Excalibur.
Reply:I can tell you that E7018 is the easiest-running rod I have ever run. I'm still a beginner, so I don't have a ton of experience, but I have run 6011, 6013, 7014, and 7018, and of them, 7018 makes me look just a bit like I know what I'm doing. I got my first batch of rods as a mixed bag from the same welder who sold me my jacket, gloves, and hood, so it was a bit of everything. I avoided running the 7018 because I didn't have a rod oven, but I learned from some guys on this forum that unless you're doing code work--and especially if you're just practicing--go ahead and run 7018 even if it's technically not 100% dry. The welds won't be as strong as they would be if the rod was properly dry, but they're probably still stronger than the mild steel you're working with. With 7018, the rod runs so smooth and clean, and the slag chips off so easy, that I can really see every little thing that I did while I was running the bead: change in speed, change in rod angle, and so forth. The other thing that's nice about 7018 is that it can be dragged--it doesn't have to be whipped or circled or anything, so you can focus on having a steady travel speed and rod angle without that added complication. On top of that, I have even run 7018 with the tip touching the work piece, so I don't have to think about arc length either. For all these reasons, I have heard 7018 referred to as the "training wheels" rod, and I have to agree.I find all these things to be true for 7014 and 6013 as well, but to a lesser degree. 6011, on the other hand, I find to be a very difficult rod to run. You can't just drag it, you have to use a whip motion; if you're not careful, it will burn through or undercut very quickly; it is eager to include slag and difficult to chip if you haven't run the bead just right. It is a very good rod for a lot of reasons, but for me, I'm just not skilled enough to produce decent welds with it. And when I am, I will consider myself to have accomplished something.
Reply:How will the customer know what rods you were using, if you just wanted to use up a bundle you got at a flea market sale....you can adjust your amps to make most rods "behave" if you know how.I've found that different rods melt at different rates and depending on how fast they melt with the same amps you can get a varied penetration rate.......I'm not a qualified welder, as you guessed.I've classed rods of unknown number in the past as "soft" or "hard" rods, IE the soft rods melt and quickly fill the gaps and weld pool and you don't have to waggle the rod to make a bead, whereas the hard rods need the amps up a bit, but still need a slower travel rate as they melt slower, and the job melts faster, resulting in a deeper penetration, but also a shallow weld pool with hard slag that needs chipping and wire brushing to get it off.This will horrify most professional welders, but as I've welded under supervision mostly it didn't matter....just put the rod in my hand and I'll throw a bead where you point to...LOL.The only time I fell down on this welding lark is when I used a 120 amp hobby welder and a collection of rods I aquiuired over the years.....the term Crowsh!t on barbed wire is very descriptive....LOLAll that passed when I used a different form of welding, and that doesn't give a sh!t what rod you use as it's just filler with the flux coating removed.Ian.Last edited by puddytat; 11-24-2012 at 12:51 AM.
Reply:In Australia we mostly use 4112, 4113 and 4816 for most jobs and the brand mainly used is WIA these rods are good and available readily.  I find you get better penetration with 4816.
Reply:Thanks everyone, good stuff.Glad to hear about 7016 / 18 seeming to penetrate a bit more than 6013. I'm starting to dislike 6013 a bit because they seem so susceptible to the slag doing whirlpool actions and other funny things. I've obviously got some things to learn to get around things like this and slag inclusions, or the dreaded thing where in the middle of a run I get two separate beads with a sandwich of slag in the middle, and I'm wondering what I changed to cause it. Last night I actually lowered the rod a lot more and that seemed to stop the whirlpool action quite a bit. Then I checked out a Youtube video by Chucke2009 on using 6013s and he said you had to have a much lower angle with 6013s to push the slag back. Maybe I'm getting there, but if 7016/18 are easier they could become my main rod. Can't wait to finish my airtight storage tubes so I can open my 7016 packets.I actually like the 6011 rods although I am relatively new to them. Read a thread about welding thin steel with them. This guy said he used 6011 day in and out to weld thin steel together. Used electrode negative to reduce penetration, and vertical down. He said the 6012 & 6013 rods need too much amps to get past the problems with their thick slag, plus the 6011s are a whipping rod which gives you on the fly control of penetration and burn through. I'm going to practice some root pass welding with them once I get my big welding table finished. I still have to force myself to deliberately blast a keyhole in the root (deliberate burn through, ha ha) to ensure full penetration. It started happening by accident once when I was doing a vertical down fillet, a hole blasted through so I whipped the rod back up then came back down to fill the hole in then back down blast another hole and repeat, got me quite excited. So I was practicing a vertical down open root run on a fillet weld just for the experience of it, what next will amateur welders like me get up to. Wish I'd known about 6011s years ago. It was welding in tight spots with acute angles that got me into 6011s. I got lots of beading and slag inclusions with 6013s but the 6011s just blasted right in there and filled the joint up, plus their small diameter helped. Then I could cap with "normal" rods after paintakingly removing the slag which seems more like adhesive.From what you guys are telling me and what I've read in other various threads I'm starting to understand why many welders say they only used 7018 & 6011 rods (4818/4816 & 4111 in Australia here). Many have said they initially hated 6011s but came to love them once they'd "conquered" them.Keith.Keith
Reply:Use 6013 rods almost all the time for  mild steel welding, any problems with them  is mostly  put down  lack of preparation , to low/high amp setting or lack of concentration.Over all they are a good all round mild steel rod and probably  have welded most things intheir time. A  7014 is another good rod, very easy to use, with good results. Worked for an earthmoving contractor in the 70s who used nothing else, a lot of welding was done on catmachines (blades buckets etc) without problems, the lack of penetration was not an issue. Cost is the main reason that I stopped using 7014, there are more bargains about for7013s.7016 rods are harder to use even with  a good DC welder, only ever use them when necessary.Only used 7018 rods once to weld a broken ripper tyne, to use they were a big improvement on the 7016. The next pack of LH rods I buy will be 7018s. In my opinion 7016/7018 are an overkill on a lot of mild steel welding.
Reply:Thanks RW,despite being a low penetration rod, 7014s seem to get recommended again and again. It's actually price that has stopped me getting them.My present packs of LH rods are 7016. I'll make sure the next pack is 7018 so I can try and make a comparison. 7014 & 7018 have medium iron powder addition so I wonder if that's what makes them easier to weld with.Keith.
Reply:Originally Posted by mancavedwellerdespite being a low penetration rod, 7014s seem to get recommended again and again. It's actually price that has stopped me getting them.
Reply:Hi im currently going going to mott community college.Im taking three classes at once wich i would not reccomend!!! But one of my classes is SMAW my favorite rod is 7018 I hate 6010.The 6010 is alot moreagressive for lack of better description.But as i said im student not a lot of experienc.I have a LincolnLN-130 DC only that I got at a yard sale on a two wheel dolly. I got 30$ into it.It can run on 110 or 220.
Reply:I'd say you're doing okay to have a 130-amp DC welder for $30. There's not much in the stick world that requires AC if you've got DC at your disposal.
Reply:cool thank you
Reply:Hi Ironhead,6011s are the brother to 6010. 6011 rods can be used on DC+, DC-, or AC. For max aggressiveness (penetration) use electrode DC+. For middle of the road penetration use on AC, and for the least use electrode DC- (more deposition but less penetration).Many started off hating them until they learnt how to use them, then 6011 became a friend they'll often call on. Do a Google search on them and include the words "thread", "forum", "post", etc in the search and you'll get quite a few discussions on these (a lot of what I read is on Weldingweb).I bought one packet, played with them and loved them. Now I've got three packs. Not a pretty weld and the slag is like glue but they're a rod with a purpose. Different brands will weld differently to others.Interesting to hear you're another 7018 lover.
Reply:Thanks mancave Ya I have a box of Lincoln 7018 and Lincoln 6011.The 7018 is definatly my favorite.But like you said the more I use the 60 series the better im getting with it.The 7018 is just so much smoother and the slag pretty much just falls off.At school we had to to some  BLT's with the 6010 I hated every minute of it lol.But I did lern from it so i guess the exercise worked.
Reply:Ironhead, you're getting me excited about trying 7018s. Others are getting me excited about trying 7014s. Damn this is getting expensive, my pile of electrode boxes is getting higher, 6012, 6013, 6011, 7016 and now got to get 7018 & 7014. I've got a 330 amp 3 phase mig I've been using for years but I quite like the stick welding for some reason.