Vise help, novice

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Date close to 1966.  Swivel base, weighs 42 lbs, approx 15” long x 8”high, 5” wide jaws, 7/8" screw, two chevrons cast in the base.  The Craftsman model is 508-51811.  I cannot confirm but I was told that the catalog number for Sears was 9GT5181.  I have a problem with the vise.  The vise will close normally using the handle.  However, in order to open the vise I have to turn the handle x times, then pull the jaw out by hand.  The number of revolutions of the handle is equal to how far the vise will pull out and then travel to completely close.  Once the jaw is pulled out it can be tightened/closed in the normal manner. On this vise I can, by rotating the handle enough times, pull the jaw completely from the vise.   I found a parts diagram of the Sears vise, but the photocopy is very fuzzy, and besides, the parts that are identified are no longer available from Sears.   I don’t know what part (or even part name) to look for to solve the problem.  I’m looking for the model of the Columbian vise that matches the Craftsman.  It is my hope that by knowing the Columbian model I will be able to search out whatever part(s) I need.  Some of the problem is I don't know the name of the part.  Can anyone tell me the model of the matching Columbian vise and/or the name of the part I'm looking for? Does the cast in logo provide any help? If there is a different forum that might help, direct me there also. Attached Images
Reply:Can you take it apart? Look at the vise nut, I suspect the retainer is broken. Once you have it apart we can see if a part can be purchased, repaired, or fabricated. Post a picture.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireCan you take it apart? Look at the vise nut, I suspect the retainer is broken. Once you have it apart we can see if a part can be purchased, repaired, or fabricated. Post a picture.
Reply:look at the part called collar and set screw.  You may have this type of mechanisim to open the jaws, and if the screw is missing or loose it is easy to fix up Attached ImagesExperience is something you get right after you need it
Reply:Fred has it going on. That is what it will take to fix it.
Reply:I had to do the same thing on an old vise I restored. I went to a local farm supplier and picked up a shaft collar and set screw for less than $5. Problem solved.
Reply:Thanks guys.  I'm frozen out for a day or so.  I'll check soon.  There is a visable collar,but I don't know if it's broken or if the set screw is out.  I'll check.  At least I now know where to look.
Reply:Photos attached.  I find no evidence of a set screw.  The collar is shown.  It definitely has a crack.  I have taken the vise down this far twice since my first post.  Each time the result is the same (no surprise) it will screw in normally but will not screw out.  I'm as thick as this vise because even with the earlier help diagram and the finding of the split in the collar I don't grasp how a different collar/set screw someplace will fix the problem.  Mercy please with replies. Attached Images
Reply:With the jaw out, can you push the threaded part in the base towards the back? It looks like it is a separate part and would need some way of retaining itself.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:As above, try to push the main nut out the back of the vise.  Based on the appearance of the shaft, the collar is not slipping.  It appears that your retainer is some sort of snap ringExperience is something you get right after you need it
Reply:Yep!  As Raptor and Fred both point out the main nut is a separate part and is retained with a either a pin or a bolt.  If it is loose the screw moves it back and forth rather than sliding the heavier jaw.  If the main nut forging does move, then you will need to pull the vise body off the swivel base to access the head of the pin.  BTW, I think your vise is a model 506-51811   The 506 prefix denotes Columbia as the manufacturer for Sears.  http://vintagemachinery.org/Craftsma...rs.aspx?sort=1RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Here Is what I found.  Currently the cast iron nut is free to move in a dovetailed raceway and can be withdrawn.  The nut has the designation D45-4B.  It has a smooth bottom with no hole in the bottom of the main nut.  Underneath the vise once the swivel base is turned aside there is a straight hole through the swivel base that (allows it to swivel and) reveals a tapped hole in the base.  It is a half inch hole but a 1/2 x 13 does not go in.  I'll try a 1/2 x 20 later.  If a bolt is inserted far enough it will enter the nut raceway and then not permit the nut to travel freely to the end of the raceway as it can do now.  If the bolt was/is not odd or left hand for some reason, I may be able to fix this with the bolt addition.  Since this Sears vise was made by Columbian, I'm hoping that the D45 on the nut may get me closer to the fix but the columbian nuts I've seen are tapped to lock the bolt in place. Still a proper bolt with the correct thread will do something.  Here's hoping.  Does anyone care to venture a guess if a square nut is also required?  Thanks to all for the help thus far. Attached Images
Reply:It appears that the center swivel bolt pulls double duty as swivel and a main nut retainer. The center bolt may have been replaced with a shorter one than factory not realizing this.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:Raptor is probably right on the swivel bolt serving dual purpose.From out here in the cheap seats, it appears that the hole in the swivel base is larger than the threaded hole it the vise body itself.  If that is the case I am thinking the bolt was a shoulder bolt that would tighten against the shoulder while leaving the un-threaded portion of the bolt loose enough to act as an axle for the swivel.  The threaded portion would extend in to the vise body and capture the main nut casting in place.  For ease and since I have a lathe, I would probably just determine the depth of the hole from the face of the swivel plate to the face of the vise body when stacked together and make a spacer sleeve a few thousandths longer.  It would act as an axle and allow the bolt to be tightened into the body with a bit of blue loctite as a prevention against the thing ever loosening again.If you don't have a lathe the spacer bushings are usually available at farm supply stores and small power equipment shops as the common ones are used to mount bearings such as idler pulleys.  Get a longer one than you need and cut it down as needed.Just my .02 worth of observations.Last edited by Rog02; 12-24-2012 at 12:46 PM.Reason: spellingRogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:I would clean the tapered surfaces of the forged nut and the corresponding tapered female part in the vice body, set the nut in place, and using a steel dowel and hammer, give the forged nut a good "whack" or two to set the forged nut wedged into place.It will probably never come out unless you gave it a similar whack in the opposite direction, (which you should avoid doing unless you want to remove it, of course.)FWIW - I have a vice very similar (columbian-made craftman, may be bigger) if it's important I suppose I could check to see how far up the bolt reaches.I am restoring another vice and plan to have the forged nut part simply set in place with a hammer whack (seems to work perfectly as far as I can tell.)  You can grind the tapered wedge surfaces if they don't mate the way they should.  (In the vice I'm restoring, these tapered surfaces originally had a poor fit.  A little sanding action with a flap wheel on an angle grinder and they are dialed in.)  Clean and degrease the surfaces if necessary.I'd rather have the main clamping forces going through the wedged tapered surfaces than shearing through a weak bolt if the hole wasn't drilled and tapped in exactly the right spot.By the way, I love those craftsman columbian vices.  This is my second one.  First one I abused pressing a metal sleeve with a huge cheater.  It was remarkable how much abuse it took before it broke.  Now I know not to push it so far (I will not use a cheater, and expect it to last pretty much forever).  Best of luck.
Reply:I think I would refrain from wedging the vise nut in place as that could lead to binding problems.  I have refurbed a few different vises over the years and have never seen a vise nut locked down except on the little ones where the vise nut was actually cast as part of the main body.  The nut is usually captured in place by a pin, which does not seem to be the case here.The idea of a vise is that it is a clamping device and having the vise nut retained by a pin does not present any problem as the load is never placed on the retainer in proper use.  HOWEVER, if you try to use the vise as a spreader the full force is placed on the pin or retaining bolt.I base my opinions on the pictures posted.  Here are a few of those pics that I have captioned to give example of the reasoning behind my suggestions. Attached ImagesRogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Rog02 - nice job noticing those details from the pics, and you are 100% right.  You beat me to it!I had just looked at my Columbian to see how it was put together, and noticed the things you clearly illustrate above regarding the threaded end of the bolt sticking up behind the forged nut part, which keeps the nut from backing out without putting large shear loads on the bolt when clamping down on the vice.Also, I noticed that the forged nut part is not "wedged" firmly in place, but rather sits a bit loose so it can pivot around sideways a bit.  (This may be a good thing for ensuring that it won't bind with the main screw thread of the vice.)  It may be partly responsible for what I've noticed gives this vice a bit of a "wobby" feel in comparison to some other much "tighter" vices that I've used.  (That won't allow the jaw to rotate and yaw around as much as this one does.)So the best fix for the OP's case I'd say, to restore back to original design, is simply to replace the bolt with one that is a little bit longer.  Without doing any careful measuring on mine, I'd say that the bolt on mine protrudes up above the bottom surface by perhaps about 1/4".  (Obviously, you wouldn't want the bolt protruding up too far because then it could bind and rub on the main screw.)OP, if there are any extra washers installed under the bolt head that look like they might have have be original, you might try removing them and seeing if that fixes the problem.  Or it might just be a case of the bolt not tightened all the way.  These vices seem to have a somewhat loose fit in the swivel section (it's something that's bugged me about it if I have to torque on it.)  Maybe I will take mine apart and see if I can improve the swivel bolt design on it to tighten it up.I've seen another guy with a swivel-based columbian who "solved" the problem by drilling and tapping another hole and installing a bolt through it, to "lock" the swivel base.Last edited by jakeru; 12-24-2012 at 05:36 PM.
Reply:Over the past week I couldn't be more pleased with the responses. The captions on the photos have been particularly helpful because I can now identify what I photographed.  Thanks for taking the time to do that.  It turns out that the bolt thread is 1/2 x 13.  The only bolt I had was a 1/2  x 13 galvanized bolt and when it stopped I thought that it was a different size and did not want to strip the threads.  When I cleaned the hole and tested with a tap it went in smooth as glass.   Now I also know how to insert the nut and that it can be loose.  My garage is unheated and we went below freezing for the past several days so I'll experiment after the holiday.  I think that I may have to cut the bolt slightly to have it not hit the screw but that is an easy fix.  If I need a bushing that I can find.  If it goes well, I'll be stripping , repainting, and putting it into service soon. Thanks to Raptor, For hire, FredS, Rog, Jackerw, and any I neglected.Last edited by nitpicker; 12-24-2012 at 10:01 PM.Reason: adding info
Reply:Nitpicker:Glad we could help and thanks for letting us know the outcome of the discussion!I understand the below freezing thing as it has dropped off to a point where it is uncomfortable at best in the shop even with both of the catalytic heaters running full blast.  Something about all that cold concrete and steel sucking up the available BTUs.  (insert frozen popsickle smilie here)RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Yup, bolt acts as a stop.  I have that same vise.  Do you have access to a lathe?  Heck, you could probably reduce the bolt on a bench grinder.  I don't think you want exposed threads.. they'd get buggered up with heavy loads and that would cause big problems later, if you wanted to remove the screw from the base.  See photo.  If you absolutely have to I could probably be persuaded to take mine apart and measure all the details, but I'm guessing you could probably scale off the photo.  And as for the winter cold in my unheateed garage, ewwww.. I had to wear a long sleeve t-shirt (with sandals of course).  Its probably 55 deg F out there.  Sure glad I'm no longer living in Metro Detroit.--Zip Attached ImagesLast edited by zipzit; 12-25-2012 at 01:38 AM.
Reply:Heavy loads pull the nut into the casting, not against the bolt . . so while no exposed threads is not a bad idea, I don't think it will make much of a difference over time either, other than perhaps not collecting crud which may make removal a tad more diffucult.
Reply:I took the liberty of sketching out the bolt design in CAD.  I just SWAGged it as far as dimensions but the profile is what I would envision the end parts to look like.I agree with tadawson that the threads should be removed from the exposed end as they may interfere with the fit and they will surely get damaged during use and therefore be difficult to remove in any future repairs.The sleeve will allow the bolt to be tightened in the assembly while allowing the vise to swivel on the base.  I would keep the fit as tight as possible so as to minimize any rocking moment in the final assembly.  I would also try to include a flat washer under the head of the bolt  to better distribute the load.AND to zipzit!  Long sleeve t-shirt?  Really now?  At 55 degrees it is considered to be short sleeve weather.  You can wear sandals in my shop too, providing a case of frost bite and losing your toes is an acceptable risk.   Attached ImagesRogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Okay, you guys shamed me into it.. I wore socks with my sandals for this one. Rog, right on with the sleeve.  Check out the photo.  Measurements accurate to nearest 0.25mm   Threads are 1/2"-13tpi, I checked.  Funny bolt, the corners of the hex were so crisp, I couldn't use a box end wrench on it, had to use the open end of the wrench.  I'm looking at this photo again.. and you know, I don't think this originally had a washer on it.. I'm thinking the bolt just locked tight against the upper shoulder of the bolt at the top of the threads.  I added the washer last cleanup and paint job.  I bought this vise new from Sears in the early 1980's--Zip Attached ImagesLast edited by zipzit; 12-25-2012 at 04:30 PM.
Reply:Perfect way to end.  When I first got my vise, I know that that bolt wasn't there.  Turns out a hardware store 1 1/4 x1/2 x 13 bolt works. The collar length on a 1 1/2 x 1/2 x 13 doesn't work.  When inserted into the threaded base the threaded portion of a 1 1/4"  barely allowed space to hold the nut so I filed away the threads about 3/8" inch off the top of the bolt.  I also added a thin washer underneath where the swivel base indentation is.  Not as thick as the original, but it works.  Now for cleanup, and repainting.  AND I'll continue to look for a proper washer and bolt.  Thanks again
Reply:Tune in again next week for another exciting adventure of the "Vise Squad".  "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder