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There are just a few old threads on this and they don't really address the work flow issues.I am currently using 1/16th aluminum 4043 rod for tig welding square 1/16 AL tube.My welds are a bit fat and I'd like to use thinner rod. the problem is thinner rod is not available.so I'm going to switch over to mig AL wire 3/64"For those of you that do this, how do you manage the wire? Do you simply cut off a couple of feet at a time? Do you make some sort of spool holder and pull on it as needed? Is the spool mounted on table or overhead? I know these are pretty basic questions and I'll probably figgure out what works for me best through trial and error, but then again I might discover something I would of never thought about if I did not ask!
Reply:I don't know if this will work with AL MIG wire but when I need to use steel MIG wire for TIG, I cut off about a 5-foot length, clamp one end in a vice, the other in my cordless drill, pull it tight, then spin it until it stays fairly straight when I let the tension off of it, then cut to length.Not sure thinner filler will solve your aluminum problems though...Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:well it will easy enough to try and see.Last edited by AluminumWelder; 12-12-2012 at 09:13 AM.
Reply:Try it if you want, but at your skill level I have a feeling you won't be happy with the results.Keep in mind thin alum tig wire melts very quickly. You will have trouble getting it near the puddle before it starts to melt. Just dripping metal on cold plate was you original problem. You will really have to have your torch angle and heat under control to make this work. Larger filler is usually easier for newer tig welders. Solution to too much filler? As mentioned before, give the filler somewhere to go with a bevel or gap, or simply use less filler. Of course those answers require that you have the skills to accomplish this task... You get those skills thru practice.You are still looking for fast high tech solutions to a simple low tech problem. You simply need to learn how to tig weld alum...This isn't something that you do fast or easy. It take lots and lots and lots or practice. When you have 3 or 4 hundred hours of tig under your belt, this will get easier. Trying to cut corners and find "fast" solutions to your lack of experience will simply hinder you from getting to where you want to go..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Ernie from SEJW newsgroup posted a good way of dealing with this problem. It's in the old dropbox from RCM here. http://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/ Look for the files "TIG spool rack". There's a text file and pics of his setup.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:I use pretty much the same technique as Brad described except i use safety wire pliers to twist the wire. They also have a cutting edge so it just means less stuff cluttering the table.If you do a lot of this you will probably end up making a stand for the spool as it keeps things neat and the wire is easier to roll off. A simple spring tension device on the axle and a wire guide where the wire is fed off. I use the 2lb. spoolsRogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Thanks Irish! I knew I had seen it somewhere. I need to modify my dispenser with his wire guides and eliminate the need for the twisting.Direct links to the article and photos:http://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/TIG_Spool_Rack.txthttp://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/TIG...uides_Back.jpghttp://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/TIG..._Rack_Left.jpghttp://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/TIG...Rack_Right.jpghttp://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/TIG..._Guide_End.jpghttp://www.mwdropbox.com/dropbox/TIG...ire_Guides.jpgRogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWTry it if you want, but at your skill level I have a feeling you won't be happy with the results.Keep in mind thin alum tig wire melts very quickly. You will have trouble getting it near the puddle before it starts to melt. Just dripping metal on cold plate was you original problem. You will really have to have your torch angle and heat under control to make this work. Larger filler is usually easier for newer tig welders. Solution to too much filler? As mentioned before, give the filler somewhere to go with a bevel or gap, or simply use less filler. Of course those answers require that you have the skills to accomplish this task... You get those skills thru practice.You are still looking for fast high tech solutions to a simple low tech problem. You simply need to learn how to tig weld alum...This isn't something that you do fast or easy. It take lots and lots and lots or practice. When you have 3 or 4 hundred hours of tig under your belt, this will get easier. Trying to cut corners and find "fast" solutions to your lack of experience will simply hinder you from getting to where you want to go.
Reply:I tend to agree with all of the advise people here have given you and that the thinner filler metal isn't going to change a thing. Instead of getting thinner filler, just feed a tiny bit less and you will end up with the same amount of filler melted into the puddle. I use 3/32" 4043 for almost everything. I step up to 1/8" when I'm using really high amperage or need to put down a lot of metal quickly, and I use 1/16" for welding really thin stuff. The only time I ever needed wire thinner than 1/16" was when I tried to weld beer cans(unsuccessfully) and I used 0.045 MIG wire for that.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:Thanks for the description and pics. Instead of going through the hassle of welding bolts off center so that the wire straghtness can be adjusted by turning the bolt. I'll probably just use 3 nails and adjust them untill I get a nice straight wire and KEEP them in one spot. It seems to me once you have the offset correct there is no need to adjust it further.My skill level is obviously subjective, but I do appreciate the comments. A pound of thinner wire will only cost me $5 to play with. I may very well flop, but you never know until you try and it's not enough $$$$ to worry about. Worse case scenario, I mess up and after a lot more practice become good enough to use it without messing up. obviously if this guy below made this rack than there is a use/need for thinner AL tig rod for certain applications.Code:These pictures are of the rack I made to use 2 lb. spoolgun spools to dispense short pieces of small diameter filler wire for tiny TIG welds.The wire guides are 1/2" bolts with 10-32 nuts TIG brazed off center.A 1/4" x 10-32 screw is loctited into the nut.You rotate each guide to adjust the amount of deflection you need toend up with a straight wire.The final guide is a short piece of 3/8" square stock with a 1/16" holein it.The eye screw keeps the wire feeding into the guides.The spool itself is kept from free spinning by tensioning the axle boltwith a nylock nut against a lock washer.There is also a nylon washer between the the spool and the wood toreduce friction.My rack has 5 spools.0.035" 4043 Aluminum0.047" 4043 Aluminum0.035" Silicon Bronze0.024" 308L SS0.024" ER70S-2 steelThis will go on top of my TIG machine.Just grab the end of the wire with pliers and pull out a short piece,snip and there you have it.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelder I'll probably just use 3 nails and adjust them untill I get a nice straight wire and KEEP them in one spot. It seems to me once you have the offset correct there is no need to adjust it further.
Reply:I commonly use 0.35mm stainless MIG wire to weld wall rail and raillings, for the only reason that if you make to big welds when you work with polisher next to you, he won't stop ask you for smaller beads.Personally, i would continue to use the 1/16'' filler rod for this tube, you should have a lot of skill to weld small diameter wire on aluminum TIG, you'll see it melt really fast!The most common and basic aluminum TIG exercices in a lot of welding school programs here in canada is to start with several different king of joint like T, Butt weld, lap joint, and teachers start you with 1/16 sheared aluminum sheets, in a lots of school i've heard that they only practice of 1/16 thick aluminum and its always done with 1/16 filler rod! I think your probleme about the look of your welds could be solved with settings adjustement and practice differents feeding/travel speed!AluminumWelder: 'obviously if this guy below made this rack than there is a use/need for thinner AL tig rod for certain applications.'' If you want to make out of your hands all the ''usefull'' project / jigs and tools that you find here on WeldingWeb you won't live enough long to build all of them hahaLast edited by LayoutMan; 12-12-2012 at 08:14 PM.Calculator > Bevel Square
Reply:you can get the 4043 down to .020 in rod form call your LWS same with 5356I guess the stuff i have doesn't exist but the thing is the 1/16 you are currently using is fine for your application Its the person behind the hood that is the problem with the non flat weldsMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:MaineOxy in Hudson, NH carry both 4043 & 5356 tig wire in .045".I use both all the time..I'm pretty sure they'll deliver to you anywhere.I'd stick with the .060" myself also though.Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:If you must use mig wire here is a good trick:Machine set about 50A DC-It's much easier to practice this on steel (it glows)Cut off about 36" of wire.Clamp 1 end of the wire to the table.Put another vice grip on the end of the rod.Do not touch the table with your other hand! You will get zapped.Touch the tungsten to the "floating end" clamp, apply a slight pull.crack the pedal & give it a small amount of juice until the wire heats up a bit.Stop when it gets a bit orange for steel. (Aluminum is a bit tougher...)This will make a piece of wire completely straight for you to tig with.Let it cool..Last edited by WeldingMachine; 12-12-2012 at 09:30 PM.Reason: yo mamaBuy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:OP- Trying To Be Aluminum Welder; DSW has laid it out for you pretty well. I will say, the rule of thumb for learning tig is to expect to burn thru an entire 250CF bottle just getting the basics down. For learning puddle control, practice with steel; SS is easier to learn with IMO. For the aluminum, 1/16" filler is plenty thin enough for your application. Make dabs more off to the side of your puddle, it will leave the overall center of the bead lower. Set your frequency LOWER, not HIGHER. A freq. of 150 will be a raised hump of a weld, whereas a freq. of 70-80 will give you a broader, lower profile. If you can not adjust frequency, then trust me, the freq. is on the low side already, because that's where the easier overall aluminum welds come in at.The comments about how fast the aluminum wire will melt out on you are very true and correct; take this as gospel. An experienced, practiced welder can work with it, so long as everything is set up correctly. A new welder is going to fight it, a lot.Wishing you luck, and more importantly, some patience. Many welders here learned to weld aluminum thru this site; most would tell you it took them several MONTHS of practice to really get it under control to get repeatable, good results. A lot of lessons need to be learned, and the only way is to screw up about 353 times in a row.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Just used up my first 160cf bottle. going to pick up a couple more tomorrow. thanks for the tips. Actually I double checked my rod and it is 3/32nd so I'll pick up some 1/16th and play with it.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderJust used up my first 160cf bottle. going to pick up a couple more tomorrow. thanks for the tips. Actually I double checked my rod and it is 3/32nd so I'll pick up some 1/16th and play with it.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloSet your frequency LOWER, not HIGHER. A freq. of 150 will be a raised hump of a weld, whereas a freq. of 70-80 will give you a broader, lower profile.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderJust used up my first 160cf bottle. going to pick up a couple more tomorrow. thanks for the tips. Actually I double checked my rod and it is 3/32nd so I'll pick up some 1/16th and play with it.
Reply:I'm not some smug newbie who thinks they do not need to practice. I just dont' think it will take me 300 to 400 hours. Just like I didn't think it would take weeks to train someone to do this and it doesnt for MY needs. The issue is I probably have lower standards than most of you pros so what you think is crap might be fine for my use. No need to get short with me. we just have differing views. peace!
Reply:There is no low standards with aluminum it's done right or it's crap!!!TO INVENT YOU NEED A GOOD IMAGINATION AND A PILE OF JUNK'' - THOMAS EDISONMost Of The Time People Don't see The Quality of a Good Job Unitl they see a Bad Job !! -Scott Esplin
Reply:when I get a moment I'll post some aluminum welds from a different manufacturer of surprisingly little consistency.....and see if you think they are crap or not. My opinion is there are various degrees of how well it is done and I can see the difference.
Reply:my local welding supply does not sell 300 cf bottles. I have to lease them for $60 a year and then fill out a credit app, they do come by every week and fill it up though! I'm guessing this is the best way to go.
Reply:I know in my area they don't sell anything bigger than an 80: everything else is rented. But they don't "come by every week and fill it up": they fill or (generally) swap it out when you call. I'm a rank beginner, but unless you are doing serious welding every day I don't think you need a 300. I realize people mentioned you'd have to burn through 250 cf to learn Al TIG or something like that, but that is meant as a comment about needing a LOT of practice, not a bigger bottle: if you buy an 80 you can go swap it out any time, esp. if your gas company is close/easy to get to: I think an 80 will last you 5-8 hours of actual weld time (is that right, those that know? It depends on settings, equipment, etc.). A professional might have a bigger bottle and a smaller backup or something, but aren't you a beginner?. I figure with prep time, etc, 5 h of weld time might be 10-20h of time at the bench, maybe even more for a beginner.Originally Posted by keithwinsI think an 80 will last you 5-8 hours of actual weld time (is that right, those that know? It depends on settings, equipment, etc.).
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWeldermy local welding supply does not sell 300 cf bottles. I have to lease them for $60 a year and then fill out a credit app, they do come by every week and fill it up though! I'm guessing this is the best way to go.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderI'm not some smug newbie who thinks they do not need to practice. I just dont' think it will take me 300 to 400 hours. Just like I didn't think it would take weeks to train someone to do this and it doesnt for MY needs. The issue is I probably have lower standards than most of you pros so what you think is crap might be fine for my use. No need to get short with me. we just have differing views. peace!
Reply:vicrc,He's not doing this as a hobby. He's trying to produce a product for sale.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by Boostinjdmvicrc,He's not doing this as a hobby. He's trying to produce a product for sale.
Reply:Originally Posted by vicrcI agree with you, you wont need 300-400 hours of hood time or free 250cf of argon to be able to weld. I made stuff for myself on my second 50cf argon tank. Welds are not pretty but will hold up my welding cart just fine and a few other things that I have made. My welds don't look as good as the pros here or probably will never be. In between projects I do practice and time will only tell. The more you do it the better you will get, recently been practicing round pipe joints and making a mess, it makes flat welds look easy.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWeldermy local welding supply does not sell 300 cf bottles. I have to lease them for $60 a year and then fill out a credit app, they do come by every week and fill it up though! I'm guessing this is the best way to go.
Reply:I tried the 1/16th and it works perfect the 3/64th filler rod is a bit too easy to melt. For any beginners out there I'd deffinetely recommend the 1/16th. Yeah if you are a pro 3/32 is probably fine, but my worker is NOT a pro but one day will be after he gets in the hood time.I think I will replace 3/64th for a roll of 1/16th. I'm thinking I might even keep it on the spool to avoid all the waste of end scraps of rod. I'm welding ONLY an inch long section at a time so handling the rod is very easy. The product I am selling has the welds hiden behind panelling looks are not that critical. neither are the loads which are just a few pounds. "Well with the questions that he has been asking lately."LOL I'm perfectly fine with asking stupid questions. Better I think than burnign up tungstens, and melting ceramics. I'll admit I'm not a natural and maybe as a pro you forgot all the learning questions you asked years ago. I'm sure there are a few that just know how to do it with out asking anyone anything. I'm deffinetely not one of those prodigies.
Reply:Hey AluminumWelder,Since this thread has gotten off to many other tangents other than your original query, maybe you will find this useful. This is a small fixture I made to use MIG wire(al/SS/cs/silbrz) as a TIG filler for those very small/thin jobs. It is easy to make & you can see the coil spring I used to apply tension to the spool so it doesn't unwind. Quite handy..... hope this helps.Denny Attached ImagesComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderI tried the 1/16th and it works perfect
Reply:@yorkiepap thanks for the photos that looks perfect.@ emeraldbison I'll see if I can get some of my workers pieces to take photos of.
Reply:well I just found out they actually make wire feeders for tig, they are wayyy too expensive thoughhttp://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...1354_1356_1358 $1200 for thisover $2,000 for this[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eICgOrvyhDQ&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
Reply:My left hand would be so bored.
Reply:Hey A-W,Too bad you didn't post this last year. I had (2) CK Systematics WF-1's complete ready-to-go for sale. I posted them on a couple forums & CL without luck, so they went on E-Bay & sold in less than 1 day on a BIN for $350/ea.. They were clean & worked nicely.....I just wasn't set up that I needed them. Here's a couple pics....Denny Attached ImagesComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:yeah that is a fair price. I just don't see paying over a grand for something when you can get used mig machines with internal wire feeders for a lot less. I'll keep looking hopefully i'll find one used, if not no big deal.
Reply:I have tig welded 1 inch aluminum tube with. 060 wall using 047 aluminum MIG wire off roll. I welded 200 to 220 tubes a day. all tubes were pressure checked at 400 psi . I did this for years So it can be done.
Reply:that's quite the production environment if you worked 8 hr days that would be 25 tubes per hr or 2.4min/tubedid you have some type of automatically rotating table set up to crank them out this fast?
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey A-W,Too bad you didn't post this last year. I had (2) CK Systematics WF-1's complete ready-to-go for sale. I posted them on a couple forums & CL without luck, so they went on E-Bay & sold in less than 1 day on a BIN for $350/ea.. They were clean & worked nicely.....I just wasn't set up that I needed them. Here's a couple pics....Denny
Reply:yes, that is a common issue. most migs are going to feed the wire pretty fast even at the low setting. You can buy the "manual pen with push button " for $125 from arczone, the issue is making a motor that feeds the wire. I'm sure someone with a little of electronics know how could do it for much less than $1000 which is what the commercial units cost.
Reply:here is electrical schematic of a commerdial one. the data connection is a r2 plug. maybe that will give you some ideas. you can download the entire user manual here: http://profaxlenco.com/images/Manual/Manuals/07200.pdf |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:38:57