Plasma Cutter, or Oxy/Ac Torch?

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Hi all,I build benches, arbors, decorative pieces etc.  Because I own a landscape maintenance company with about 300 clients, I am able to place most of my work, and am looking to expand.  Up until now, I have done all my cutting with a chop saw and angle grinders with cutting blades.  I am looking to add either a plasma cutter, or an oxy/ac torch.  I have one of THESE that I use for heating and bending steel when I need to, I can easily bend sch 40 pipe with my little HF bar bender, I get a little kink, but nothing bad.  I would like a bigger torch occasionally, especially in the winter.  It is really hard to heat a larger piece when it is 30 degrees.  So, anyway, I have been drooling over a plasma cutter, but am wondering if I would be better off with just a good torch.  HERE is a thread to give you some idea of the kind of work that I am doing.  Could I cut that kind of detail with an oxy/ac torch? Would I be better off to just get a plasma cutter?  Thanks for any feedback.Check out my channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkz...bZg8AYNXGqBjZQ"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of arms." - Aristotle
Reply:Well.....every shop needs an oxy fuel set of torches before a plasma system. And I work for Hypertherm.....I'd rather you bought a plasma first (unless it is from someone else!).Plasma is great for a wide range of materials....thin to thick, and there is no need to store flammable gases and buy oxygen. It cannot heat things like an oxy fuel torch can...and that is one of the great advantages of oxy-fuel. The oxy fuel needs no compressor and no power....but does take more expertise (for cutting) as compared to a plasma, and will not cut aluminum or stainless...an makes a mess of materials much thinner than about 3/16".I have hand plasma and machine mounted plasma's. Yesterday my wife decided sh needed a small shelf in her horse barn for her gloves and helmet, and to hang her coat. I went in my shop, spent 15 minutes drawing up some shelf brackets in CAD, cut them, bent them, welded them to a couple of old horse shoes, thre on some paint, cut a piece of oak to fit....pic's attached. I used a mig welder (Hobart) and a Powermax 85 plasma on a PlasmaCam cnc machine. No torches!Jim Colt Originally Posted by IronHideHi all,I build benches, arbors, decorative pieces etc.  Because I own a landscape maintenance company with about 300 clients, I am able to place most of my work, and am looking to expand.  Up until now, I have done all my cutting with a chop saw and angle grinders with cutting blades.  I am looking to add either a plasma cutter, or an oxy/ac torch.  I have one of THESE that I use for heating and bending steel when I need to, I can easily bend sch 40 pipe with my little HF bar bender, I get a little kink, but nothing bad.  I would like a bigger torch occasionally, especially in the winter.  It is really hard to heat a larger piece when it is 30 degrees.  So, anyway, I have been drooling over a plasma cutter, but am wondering if I would be better off with just a good torch.  HERE is a thread to give you some idea of the kind of work that I am doing.  Could I cut that kind of detail with an oxy/ac torch? Would I be better off to just get a plasma cutter?  Thanks for any feedback.
Reply:Yep, save the gas torch for heating and brazing. A decent plasma for cutting will save you money in the long run as fuel prices go up.All the platework  for this steel structure was done on a plasma table seen behind it.Last edited by shovelon; 12-30-2012 at 04:46 PM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Jim, A) I love those shelf brackets.  B) I had no idea that oxy/fuel torches made messy cutting of thinner material.  (I have only used one once, and that was 27 yrs ago in 8th grade metal shop to bend some hooks.)  Since most of the material I am cutting designs into is 14 gauge and thinner, it seems Shovelon makes a good point about getting a good plasma unit.  I reckon this might be another case where I will end up needing both.  NEED A BIGGER SHOP!Check out my channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkz...bZg8AYNXGqBjZQ"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of arms." - Aristotle
Reply:Great brackets Jim..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Plasma gets my vote for the work you are doing.__________________
Reply:I...for some reason can't just make a plain shelf bracket. The nice thing about the cnc plasma is that you can stick almost any design on plain parts...and make them look a lot better. I have two 5 gallon pails of old horseshoes (we have 5 of the beasts)...I think I'll offset some of the farrier's (guy that puts on horseshoes) costs with some shelf brackets!Jim
Reply:Another plasma vote, but what you did with a grinder is pretty amazing.  For a lot of intricate work, you may find cutting a template to follow a lot easier than free hand because it's easier (for me) to keep up the correct speed.Another thing, the Hypertherms (and maybe other brands) have torches that you drag along the metal which is nice because you only have to work in one plane and not worry about stand off distances.Nice stuff you made, btw.
Reply:What about a $260 Porta-Band AND an O/A rig ... all for less than the price of a plasma cutter?It covers a heck of a lot more bases (brazing, welding, cutting, heating, etc.) for less money. And on tubing and such, the porta-band will make nicer (and weld-ready) cuts than either a plasma cutter or an O/A.You can get a Chinee O/A rig from HFT that's Victor-compatible and gets good reviews for less than $250 (minus the bottles, which I would lease, anyway)...
Reply:For the OP's specific application I think a plasma cutter will work best.Now if Jim/Hypertherm could only make a unit that could cut and preheat, life would be perfect. Thermal Arc 210 FabricatorHypertherm PM 45and lots of other tools the wife doesn't know about
Reply:I just did this 48" x 24" sign for a local farm yesterday. The horses are drawn from pictures of the farm owner on her horse (done in PlasmaCam software).The 3 horses are showing the three phases of English eventing (Stadium Jumping, Dressage, Cross Country), as the farm owner is an olympic level rider/trainer.  It is cut from 10 gauge steel. The drawing in CAD took about 1.5 hours, the plasma cutting process took about 8 minutes. Very little cleanup....there always is a small amount of dross in areas of high detail.This is the kind of work the original poster in this thread does. This sign would be rather difficult to do with any type of saw, and the material would be severely warped and would require hours of cleanup if done with oxy-fuel. The original poster....if he desires to make nicely detailed scenes on large pieces (like the great benches pictured) could start out with a hand plasma....then over time purchase an entry level cnc to improve, automate and speed up the process.Jim Colt  Hypertherm Attached Images
Reply:While Ironhide will most probably be better off with the plasma, there is no reason why what he was cutting for the benches couldn't be done with OA. There isn't much warpage with 14 ga. if you know how to use a torch on thinner stuff. People just think it can't be done with a torch and go right to the plasma. Hopefully he won't have to make bent legs or arm rests where the torch would be needed to heat stuff up.I realise that plasma is the right tool for this but I constantly see where people will recommend the plasma instead of really learning how to do things with OA. To show you what I mean, here is a couple projects I cut out with a torch and they are 14 ga. Attached Images
Reply:Beautiful work Jim and Bob.  Just amazing.Check out my channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkz...bZg8AYNXGqBjZQ"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of arms." - Aristotle
Reply:I agree that an oxy-fuel torch will cut thin stuff.....however it does take a bit more skill than the plasma. With the plasma you lay the torch right on the material and push the go button....release the button to stop.Nice torch work Bob!
Reply:I've been wanting to get one of these for general heating and bending and it would eventually end up in a forge.  Just a propane torch on steroids.http://www.hybridburners.com/products.html Attached Images"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:I would say get the torch first, but since you are wanting to do the kind of work better served by a plasma, I will say............. Buy an inexpensive torch set up used off fleabay, and look for a used Hypertherm. Unless you can afford a new Hypertherm."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:OA is super versatile, as others have mentioned, everything from welding, brazing, cutting, straightening, and shrinking. Your cost for an entire setup including tanks in generally a LOT less than a quality plasma cutter. If you watch/ask around used setups can be had for a few hundred. Every shop needs a OA setup.Looking at the stuff your building... plasma is likely your best bet for the animal shapes. Dream a little bigger and get a cnc plasma table.
Reply:I don't know how much shop room you have or how much $$ you can realistically spend but a plasma table could be your "best" option. With about 300 built in clients, the ability to make custom gates, benches, address/name plates, etc. fast and fairly easy could boost both parts of the business to another level. Of course this takes a certain amount of risk.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"