3033, 5052, 6061

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I am looking at building a gas tank. I built one from I think 3033 in .090. I had to change my design so I need to start over. I am faced with trying to understand which aluminum is best for such a thing. Can you compare and contrast these?
Reply:http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/aluselect/01_applications.aspTemper obviously affects things but...3003 soft, very formable and easy to work with. Lower strength than the other candidates, good choice for parts with lots of shape (strength through geometry)5052 harder and stronger while still easyily formable. Work hardens quickly compared to 3003, better choice for parts with less shape6061 harder still and less formable (larger bend radii necessary), not an alloy i'd choose to make a gas tank from
Reply:What is the gas tank going into? 5052 has the best corrosion resistance.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:5052 seems to be the best choice based on my research for this project:http://bensonmobilewelding.com/Alumi...rBassBoat.aspxI used thicker 11 gauge aluminum sheet for the tank I built, but it was probably overkill.  I wanted something a bit easier to weld, and my customer implied that the tank would take a beating as he cruised from one fishing hole to another.  If you are planning on doing a lot of forming work on the tank, try to get your 5052 with a lower H number.  5XXX series aluminum are a work hardening alloy, not a heat treatable grade like 6XXX series alloys.  A higher H number means the sheet has a higher yield strength, and is more brittle.  A lower H number grade will withstand more, and tighter radius bends, with less chance of cracking. Either way, welding will undo the strength gains from work hardening in the Heat affected zone around each weld.  So make sure that your weld reinforcement is good, with no undercut.  Don't grind your welds flush, as you'll need that extra material as insurance for a good strong joint.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Interesting topic, and one we cover a lot in the airplane world. As has been already mentioned in this thread, 5052  work hardens faster than 3003. This has 2 implications when it comes to our fuel tanks. One is formability, and the other is durability, and strangely enough they follow each other. When you stop to think bout it, if your fuel tank is in a race car, fast boat, or airplane ( especially aerobatic ) you are literally pounding on the tank walls and seams. The tank material is actually work hardening, and this is where we find a pitfall with 5052. It will harden to the point of failing in the form of cracks, and of course this is hardly desireable. History has shown that the best material for a tank with will be subject to a lot of forces, is 3003. 6061 is rarely if ever used for obvious reasons. and 5052 is a good material for stationary fuel tanks or low force applications.
Reply:Is 3003 the best alloy in terms of corrosion resistance?  This may (and I say may because I don't know it for a fact) be more important in some applications... Originally Posted by makoman1860Interesting topic, and one we cover a lot in the airplane world. As has been already mentioned in this thread, 5052  work hardens faster than 3003. This has 2 implications when it comes to our fuel tanks. One is formability, and the other is durability, and strangely enough they follow each other. When you stop to think bout it, if your fuel tank is in a race car, fast boat, or airplane ( especially aerobatic ) you are literally pounding on the tank walls and seams. The tank material is actually work hardening, and this is where we find a pitfall with 5052. It will harden to the point of failing in the form of cracks, and of course this is hardly desireable. History has shown that the best material for a tank with will be subject to a lot of forces, is 3003. 6061 is rarely if ever used for obvious reasons. and 5052 is a good material for stationary fuel tanks or low force applications.
Reply:I guess all the aluminum beer kegs are gone.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doIs 3003 the best alloy in terms of corrosion resistance?  This may (and I say may because I don't know it for a fact) be more important in some applications...
Reply:I did some checking....3003 is alloyed with Manganese, while 5052 is alloyed with Magnesium.  Alloying elements in both are similar in concentration.  Neither is close to pure aluminum, or 1100 series aluminum.The only difference I can find is that mechanical properties seem to be slightly better with 5052, but you can't use it in service enviroments over 150°F, due to a susceptibility to stress-corrosion cracking.Otherwise, they seem to be interchangeable and have very similar corrosion resistance.So, I'd consider them interchangeable for the purposes of building a fuel tank.  Unless you're going to design the tank with a very small factor of safety for mechanical properties, or the tank will see service in higher temperature environments. Originally Posted by makoman1860Well considering its almost pure aluminum, with no alloying elements, yes Remember that alloys like 2024 and even 6061 are available "alclad" which means there is a thin layer of pure aluminum on the surfaces to prevent corrosion. The big elements that cause aluminum to easily corrode, are magnesium and copper. Most of the navy planes in WW2 had 3003 fuel tanks....and i have yet to find a corroded one.
Reply:It's generally mag contents >3% when SCC becomes more of an issue (dependant on many things), 5052 is 2.5%Mg. Tank construction is going to play the biggest role with regards to fatigue properties imo but  when things are engineered to the limit then you're going to take everything you can that'll give you the edge3003 and 5052 behave quite differently while being worked, something that's easy to form with 3003 can be a relative pita with 5052. Some good articles at the Alumatter side of the page i linked to earlier... http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/content/html/eng/default.asp?catid=214&pageid=2144417082 for 3xxx series and http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/content/html/eng/default.asp?catid=214&pageid=2144417084 5xxx series
Reply:Cool.  I knew 5052 generally undergoes more cold working (judging by the H designators you see commonly available) when they roll it into sheet.  I haven't done any serious forming work with either material, so that point of view didn't occur to me. Everything I've done to date has been done using flat sheet, sheared to size, or simple bends formed by my material supplier. The references I found for SCC and Al 5052 must have been erring on the side of caution...I'll have to find an ASM handbook or Metals handbook and see what they have to say...Thanks for the links... Originally Posted by hotrodderIt's generally mag contents >3% when SCC becomes more of an issue (dependant on many things), 5052 is 2.5%Mg. Tank construction is going to play the biggest role with regards to fatigue properties imo but  when things are engineered to the limit then you're going to take everything you can that'll give you the edge3003 and 5052 behave quite differently while being worked, something that's easy to form with 3003 can be a relative pita with 5052. Some good articles at the Alumatter side of the page i linked to earlier... http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/content/html/eng/default.asp?catid=214&pageid=2144417082 for 3xxx series and http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/content/html/eng/default.asp?catid=214&pageid=2144417084 5xxx series
Reply:Thanks Guys. It is going in a Pantera. I built some things out of 3003. The tank will have plenty of angles so I don't think the difference in strength between 3003 and 5052 will be an issue. Here is an air dam I made from the 3003 to replace the fiberglass air dam:http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/airdam/ad.htm
Reply:If you're forming the tank to fit a specific shape, then you might try to get your aluminum in the annealed condition.  It would be a whole lot easier to work with, and you won't have to use a torch to anneal it like you did with the air dam fabrication.  Nice looking piece of work, by the way. Originally Posted by gow589Thanks Guys. It is going in a Pantera. I built some things out of 3003. The tank will have plenty of angles so I don't think the difference in strength between 3003 and 5052 will be an issue. Here is an air dam I made from the 3003 to replace the fiberglass air dam:http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/airdam/ad.htm
Reply:Good choice on the 3003, I think you will be glad you used it in the long run, especially seeing the car its going in. Nice work on the air dam!
Reply:Thankyou guys. The shape I need will be basic bends. I did not anneal the last one. I did not finish the last one because i needed to change my shape and start over. I have the shape in welding rod frame right now.  The shapes will be a little complex but the bends will be straight 90's. I have come a long way since I built the last one and I am looking forward to some better looking welds.