Who makes the smoothest starting mig with the least amount of spatter?

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I plan on buying a Miller Syncrowave 200 soon, I am not sure on what little mig to get. There are alot of little migs out there and they all seem to be good. I had a Lincoln Wire-matic 250 I just sold, and it ran great for the big stuff, but I need somthing that runs great for the small stuff, but I want somthing that runs smooth right from the second I pull the trigger and with the least amount of spatter? I am not welding anything thick just small stuff, little gun parts,  so I don't need a lot of volts,  I have been looking at the miller 140, 180 & 211 or the Lincoln power mig 140c or 180c any opinions?  Has anyone used both brands? I am not a beginer welder, I have ran a mig probably a coupple thousand hours before, so I don't need one that just has auto settings. I just want a mig that runs very, very smooth from start to stop. Is any better than the other for what I want when you are talking Miller, lincoln, hobart???  Thanks!!Jason
Reply:That's a loaded question..Least amount of spatter is all up to the user..The gas if any..The wire..The amps..The volts..The user.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I'll be running gas, I always used a 75/25 but I was told to use a 90/10 that that would help. I don't want to make it seem like a loaded question.  All I know is that I used a little matco 110 welder the other day, and it made the Lincoln Wire-matic 250 seem like a pice of S--T -- on small stuff, I know the Lincoln would weld big stuff much better, but that is not what I am wanting it for.
Reply:Think Tig?
Reply:How big of guns are you talking about?  If it were up to me, I would tig everything small enough to be used in a gun.  This is coming from a guy that tigged the sides on a dump trailer though so take it as you wish...My name's not Jim....
Reply:90/10 wont do much for spatter in my opinion. We switched to that at work once. It runs kind of cold and there is less spatter it just seems to be bigger and stick more than the spatter from c25. This is just opinion not fact. other people may have had different results. We weld hot rolled and leave the scale on a lot of the time so having some more co2 is benefical for our process. I never tried it on anything really clean. Might be different in that case.It's really just comes down to the weldor not the welder imho. The only thing about a machine that might help would be inductance control. Maybe a higher class inverter based machine with pulse or surface tension transfer capability would help cut down on the spatter compared to a conventional mig. A lot of the times the cost is prohibitive for the hobby weldor though.Last edited by i4sillypwr; 03-13-2010 at 06:11 PM.
Reply:i have quite a few freinds who machine , weld and just plain hot rod 1911's religously.........never heard of MIGing on a pistol or rifle for that matter......only TIG. they're just to detailed and intricate for mig.        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmHow big of guns are you talking about?  If it were up to me, I would tig everything small enough to be used in a gun.  This is coming from a guy that tigged the sides on a dump trailer though so take it as you wish...
Reply:I'm an FFL 'smith and had a Synchro 180.  Great on the higher current stuff but not so good below 50 amps.  I traded it in on Thermal Arc TA-185, and it is much better than the Synchro.  Having pulse control is great when doing small gun parts.  I also have a MM185 mig which I dearly love and have had some good success on some small gun parts, but I use TIG most of the time.
Reply:yeah...all tha big pros on this site r always cryin' to everyone how a bigger machine is always better.......man , do these guys drive their trucks with tha pedal to the floor all the time......let's talk about how low and smooth your amperage can go. It's pretty easy to weed out the idiots when ya hear'm        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:Originally Posted by woi2ldyeah...all tha big pros on this site r always cryin' to everyone how a bigger machine is always better.......man , do these guys drive their trucks with tha pedal to the floor all the time......let's talk about how low and smooth your amperage can go. It's pretty easy to weed out the idiots when ya hear'm
Reply:I have been using a new miller auto 140 and am impressed with this little machine...spatter is almost null and void....I am very happy with it....but I may be easy to impress.JerodHypertherm 30Miller Syncrowave 200Millermatic 140and a propane torch and hanger if all else fails
Reply:Originally Posted by woi2ldyeah...all tha big pros on this site r always cryin' to everyone how a bigger machine is always better.......man , do these guys drive their trucks with tha pedal to the floor all the time......let's talk about how low and smooth your amperage can go. It's pretty easy to weed out the idiots when ya hear'm
Reply:My 5 yr old MM175 has done great for me. If I get much spatter it's because I didn't prep good enough. I've welded a lot of .062" wall square tube I've salvaged from ATV shipping crates.                            MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I understand some really nice $5,000 - $10,000 machine will weld small stuff great, and I know a lot better than a $600 miller, but all I am wanting  to get is somthing like a $600 miller 140 or somthing simmilar along with a tig because you can weld small parts quick and easier.  I am not concerned if the weld is as prity as a tig or I will be using a tig. The thing is- anything I weld on a gun, mosk likley, I will have to machine back down with the bridgeport, or the lathe, or re-shape it with a file and sandpaper, so it would be vary, vary rare to ever see a bead.  I understand there is more metal to clean up using a mig. If I was welding up the rails on a 1911 I would use a tig. If I am welding on a beavertail on to a browning hp, or filling up a scope mount hole, somthing that doesn't need as much precision, why not use a little mig, it's quicker and easy. I used a little mig a few weeks ago , it was a little Matco 110 or 220 welder and it welded little stuff so much better than my Lincoln Wirematic-250. It ran a so much smoother on the start of the weld, Like I said before the lincoln welded the big stuff ok and smooth, but when you tried to set it low, it sucked. I just want a little mig maching that runs smooth, I won't use it much, sometimes I might go weeks sometimes a month or two without needing a welder, I still have payments on a Bridgport, I can't don't want payments on a $5,000 or a $10,000 welder, I just want a little mig for some things, but I want the best of the little, cheaper ones I can afford. The most I want to spend on a little mig is $1,000.Keep the replies comming,I like to hear what you think.Thanks,Jason
Reply:The problem with miggin small stuff is that the bead is very short.  The beginning and end of a mig bead can be less than ideal.  The shorter the bead is, the less ideal weld you have.   Clear as mud, I know....Let's use filling a scope hole as an example.  With mig, odds are good that you will leave a pin hole in the center.  With tig, it's not as much of an issue.  Personally, if all of my work consisted of stuff that would fit on a work bench, I would only own a Tig.Since you already plan on purchasing a Tig,  I would get it first and see how it works out before spending the money on a mig that may or may not be beneficial.  Keep in mind that larger projects like a trailer, workbench, etc.  could always be stick welded with that Sync you mentioned.  When it comes to joining metal,  Stick and Tig can generally keep you covered.My name's not Jim....
Reply:TIG.  When I need to build up the rear of a 1911 frame to give it a nice seamless fit for a beavertail grip safety, it's TIG all the way.  I couldn't imagine doing that with MIG.  Welding on a magwell...TIG as well.  Building up a bushing to machine for a smooth fit...TIG again.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Found a couple of good pages in one of my manuals that may help you, generally it comes down to the inductance in the welders transformer during transfer that causes splatter,also sheilding gas, power demand time... I put a couple pages from my favourite mig welding handbook.Most welders know alot of this.Also how you set up your welder to the settings you require, it has been said mig is the easiest to get into but the hardest to troubleshoot.I would go with a 220 welder with small gun, as these seem to have smoothest feeds, never saw a 110 with good feed, but you have your mind made up concentrate on the work and test your beads Attached Images
Reply:Here's the smoothest. And least amount of spatter is all up to the user. NOT with a Passport Plus! Seeing is believing, video below.At the end of this video (Welding with Co2 vs C25). If you take a look at the video, you'll understand why inverter technology is the smoothest. You'll have to switch from the default video to (Welding with Co2 vs C25).http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...ash/video.htmlCheck with "DRW or Broccoli".Last edited by Vern2; 03-17-2010 at 11:04 AM.
Reply:Smoothest bead may be a function of the weldOR and not the weldER, but smoothest arc starts/stops are definitely a function of the windings, inductance settings or default inductance, capacitor quality and capacity, condition of the tip, liner, drive rolls and mig wire and on some of the higher end machines, program control of any given mig welder.That said I've got in the shop at work my own Esab Migmaster 251 and a Lincoln Idealarc 400 with an LN-7 feeder, on light sheetmetal there is no comparison between the two machines, even though the lincoln has a way bigger capacitor bank.I would recommend in the price range/hobby class you are looking for to try and find something with a stitch feature as many of these machines are intended for use as on auto body and you can't run a long bead on a 22 ga panel without wrecking it.  While part of the "bigger is better" mentality is probably a testosterone driven lunacy, I can personally attest to several used, larger machines blowing new smaller machines out of the water as far as arc smoothness and start.Other than recommending Esab migmasters because I like them I can't help you much with a recommendation, other than to stay the hell away from anything Clarke and the lincoln weld-pak/mig pak line of machines.  You may also want to look into buying a mig feeder than can take constant current from your syncrowave though I can't attest to the quality of arc starts on those machines.Last edited by greenbuggy; 03-17-2010 at 05:47 PM.
Reply:I have a Hobart 135; budget machine for the hobbyist. It is a $500 machine and as a hobbyist I have learned to use it with it's limitations.Having said so I feel completely comfortable and have learn to weld everything from thin metal to heavy brackets on farm equipment. I have a 12,000 lb tractor which broke a bush hog attachment point. It was  1.5" thick. I ground a bevel, welded it on. Years of bouncing the weight of the tractor on the bus hog (I am tough on this sort of thing) and it still holds. I welded a draw bar on a neighbors plow with nothing but the weld holding the draw bar. He then plowed an acre to plant corn for deer.At the same time I restore cars and I weld everything from stands, brackets to a ton of thin sheet metal. I have become quite comfortable doing so.In doing so you learn the limitations and techniques for making it work. For instance I have learned that this machine loves .023 wire on metal thick or thin; you just have to learn how to use it. Second I have gone through 100 of the large spools of .023. Problem is the wire kicks off the spool. I soon learned to put in a magnet and a "L" bracket to keep the wire from jumping the spool. Specifically regarding smooth starts.In doing so the one thing I wish the welder had was a way to lead the gas. I plan on modifying it to do so at some time. You see when you begin welding it spits. Soon, it settles in and welds like a sewing machine. However, if I start, stop, start and stop, it often starts right up with no spatter. This is due to the fact that the welding area is still shielded with gas. One partial solution I do is to pull the trigger, run some wire and cut the wire on the clamp right before I begin. This gets the gas to the tip and keeps the spatter time to a minimum.
Reply:gow589, I know it is off topic but looks like your tensioner is not tightened on your spool, because you should have resistance on your spool it should not turn quite free.
Reply:Spray transfer makes the least spatter.  Look into a pulsed-MIG if that is your concern.
Reply:A weldor who knows how to use a HotGlueGun.The weld ain't in the machine, it's in the man!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThat's a loaded question..Least amount of spatter is all up to the user..The gas if any..The wire..The amps..The volts..The user.....zap!Originally Posted by gow589I have a Hobart 135; budget machine for the hobbyist. It is a $500 machine and as a hobbyist I have learned to use it with it's limitations.Having said so I feel completely comfortable and have learn to weld everything from thin metal to heavy brackets on farm equipment. I have a 12,000 lb tractor which broke a bush hog attachment point. It was  1.5" thick. I ground a bevel, welded it on. Years of bouncing the weight of the tractor on the bus hog (I am tough on this sort of thing) and it still holds. I welded a draw bar on a neighbors plow with nothing but the weld holding the draw bar. He then plowed an acre to plant corn for deer.At the same time I restore cars and I weld everything from stands, brackets to a ton of thin sheet metal. I have become quite comfortable doing so.In doing so you learn the limitations and techniques for making it work. For instance I have learned that this machine loves .023 wire on metal thick or thin; you just have to learn how to use it. Second I have gone through 100 of the large spools of .023. Problem is the wire kicks off the spool. I soon learned to put in a magnet and a "L" bracket to keep the wire from jumping the spool. Specifically regarding smooth starts.In doing so the one thing I wish the welder had was a way to lead the gas. I plan on modifying it to do so at some time. You see when you begin welding it spits. Soon, it settles in and welds like a sewing machine. However, if I start, stop, start and stop, it often starts right up with no spatter. This is due to the fact that the welding area is still shielded with gas. One partial solution I do is to pull the trigger, run some wire and cut the wire on the clamp right before I begin. This gets the gas to the tip and keeps the spatter time to a minimum.
Reply:Originally Posted by pistolnoongow589, I know it is off topic but looks like your tensioner is not tightened on your spool, because you should have resistance on your spool it should not turn quite free.
Reply:Originally Posted by gow589I would agree but if I tighten up the tensioner the 135 on the over sized rolls it struggles in pulling the wire. The speed is not consistent.  I don't have this trouble on smaller spools but I would be going through them like candy.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrI don't know that machine, but I have come across machines, that just did not pull 0.23" wire very well. A guy came in and said I had the little puller wheel in backwards. And to be honest I thought I had put it in the right way, and remembered checked it again. But I thought and even hoped, the guy might be right. But when he checked it too, and it did not work, I knew it was the machine. I also think that puller wheel can wear. The corners come off the wheel. Maybe from someone else using the smaller grove for larger wire?       Sincerely,             William McCormick