Need Help, I need to cut off culvert (to long) thats under water.

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I need to cut off 12 feet of a 30 inch wide culvert thats all under water, two feet of water covers the culvert.I thought for a very brief moment in time of using a battery powered sawsall, quickly acknowledging I would have a piece of junk in my hands in a few moments.Any suggestions of how to cut off the excess 12 feet of culvert?Its under a good road, and I do not want to dig it up to cut it off.
Reply:1st thought pneumatic sawzal, Working as a commercial diver most of the tools we use underwater are hydraulic or pneumatic. My 2nd thought would be to sand bag the trench on both ends and pump down the work area. If it's flowing water you will also need to pump from the high side past your blocked section and then into the trench on the other side. It's the same method used to do stream crossings for pipe and such. We also do this regularly diving. We'll block up as much of the leaks in an area, then start pumping. As soon as the water level drops, we can work "dry" rather than wet. You might not get it 100% dry, but down far enough you can cut most of it away.Last thought would be an exothermic torch like a Brocco torch or Slice pack. The torches are very expensive, but they are designed to cut just about anything underwater. I doubt it's worth the cost, but if you know a fire rescue guy you might check if they have a unit. They can "practice" on your pipe. Most volenteer FD's are always looking for free training. Cover the cost of consumables and they might say yes.I sassume this is steel. If it's concrete, I'd either rent a hydraulic bar saw or go at it with a sledge and chisel.Last edited by DSW; 04-22-2011 at 08:23 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:http://en.allexperts.com/q/Welding-3...-Acetylene.htmBest to use common sense before doing anything shown above.
Reply:if time isnt a issue or had some kids that need punishment a good old hack sawMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Not sure what your budget is... but if money is no object... than something like this would do dandy http://www.wachssubsea.com/pdffiles/dws.pdfBeing that you likely don't have the budget for the above... then try a pneumatic reciprocating saw. Being underwater you won't have any issues with the blade getting hot. You will want one that is variable speed or slow enough for steel. Maybe you can rent one? Attached Images
Reply:How bad do you want it cut?  I'd buy a cordless sawzall off ebay for under $100 and throw it out when you're done.My name's not Jim....
Reply:A giant pipe cutter called a rotary cutter. It's manual and only requires 8" of clearance.http://www.reedmfgco.com/index.html?...rotary_cuttersI suspect you can find these for rent and once it's installed you may be able to work out of the water  Attached Images
Reply:I've actually used a few of the Wachs subsea diamond wire saws. But then again i do work offshore with ROV's (Remotely Operated Vehicle) Another option would be a hydraulic operated grinder. We have a Stanley brand that has a 5/8 arbor on it. We've used 14" abrasive blades along with 7"-9" grinding blades up to 10,000 fsw. Maybe you could rent something like that locally and would be safer then water+electricity.
Reply:Is it a standard corrugated culvert? That'll make a little difference on the tool. Maybe it's one of the eggshaped ones too?"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by burntside bobI need to cut off 12 feet of a 30 inch wide culvert thats all under water, two feet of water covers the culvert.I thought for a very brief moment in time of using a battery powered sawsall, quickly acknowledging I would have a piece of junk in my hands in a few moments.Any suggestions of how to cut off the excess 12 feet of culvert?Its under a good road, and I do not want to dig it up to cut it off.
Reply:a bit pricey unless you could rent, but a diamond cable saw. if you could get a piece of the cable, perhaps two teams to have a tug-o-war with it under the culvert??? I have no idea how fast they cut.  same idea is used to cut wellheads that are on fire . . . .-- fredLincoln 180C MIG
Reply:http://www.harborfreight.com/high-sp...saw-91753.htmlhttp://www.harborfreight.com/pack-of...des-67627.htmlBest to use common sense before doing anything shown above.
Reply:Perhaps your looking at this backwards ...Perhaps you should add dirt to the side so it covers the too long culvert.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Anything with batteries won't work unless you can keep it dry,batteries would short,so would motor as soon as they got wet.I don't know if an air saw would work either,as soon as it filled with water,there would go your lubrication for the saw plus it would want to pump water not air.Your talking 50 plus inches to be able to get to the bottom of culvert with the water being 2 foot deep.......Last edited by dugndeep; 04-23-2011 at 10:14 AM.Maxus Pro-125 MigChicago Electric 90 amp DC flux-coreLincoln Electric AC 225 tombstoneO/A torchM/O mini-torch10 acres of flatland15 acres of holler
Reply:a pneumatic cutoff saw would work fine - the company i work for deals exclusively in renting pneumatic equipment. as far as loss of lubiraction, with our equipment it is all sealed with remote supply and exhaust ports for the air, as well as a remote oiler right on the supply hose for the saw.you would however need access to at least a 65cfm compressor, again i could easily rent one to you, but your looking now at around a few hundred bucks...you could just get a hacksaw and cut it by hand...
Reply:Originally Posted by burntside bobI need to cut off 12 feet of a 30 inch wide culvert thats all under water, two feet of water covers the culvert.I thought for a very brief moment in time of using a battery powered sawsall, quickly acknowledging I would have a piece of junk in my hands in a few moments.Any suggestions of how to cut off the excess 12 feet of culvert?Its under a good road, and I do not want to dig it up to cut it off.
Reply:I don't know what grade the culvert was set at, but if it is flooded up to where it comes out from under the road it won't matter what you cut off it.  Sounds like a problem with the grading for drainage.  Get it to drain right like culverts are supposed to, stick some rubber boots on then go to cutting.
Reply:Got your solution right here:It will even bust the clog for you!
Reply:Originally Posted by dugndeepAnything with batteries won't work unless you can keep it dry,batteries would short,so would motor as soon as they got wet.I don't know if an air saw would work either,as soon as it filled with water,there would go your lubrication for the saw plus it would want to pump water not air.
Reply:An air tool will blow clean after being submerged. Been there done that with a cheapy grinder in a bucket of water out of boredom.I've also used MANY air tools (impact wrenches) in a very wet (probably a Superfund site now!) auto scrapyard in Jersey where they were often dropped and drenched in puddles of sandy water/oil/ATF/glycol. The amount of nasty they'll take before needing rebuild or disposal is impressive. I'd get an angle grinder that would run a 6" or 7" cutoff wheel, a box of wheels, then have at it. We poured motor oil and ATF (whatever was left in the wrecks) into our air tools at the scrapyard and it worked fine. Get down with da sloppy and get paid. Get a stout grinder, charge more than enough to pay for it, and if the grinder still works after savage abuse then it's a good grinder!
Reply:if its just standard culvert  and you would rather save money instead of time - a long drill bit to start the hole from above water level followed by much cussing and a pair of shears with handle extensions.    Its not even in the neighborhood of easy, but you can get the job done.   The more holes you drill from above the easier it is.   I have done galvanized sheet this way along the edge of a dock - Another option - Stihl RDR chain on a long bar saw. Not sure how it would work on culvert pipe but it goes through a car door like cardboard.When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives.
Reply:Same blade, different saw - go to the second half of the video.http://www.youtube.com/v/ibR-UX91f5YWhen any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives.
Reply:try theses one should work for a galvinized culvert and there chaeap  all ya need is air  http://www.harborfreight.com/air-too...saw-91753.html or http://www.harborfreight.com/air-too...ars-98580.html or  http://www.harborfreight.com/air-too...ler-96661.html350P 30A spool gun cut master 51  syncro 250 other stuff " take a dog off the street and make him prosper and he will not bite you sad the same cannot be said for man" i didnt use punctuation just to piss you off
Reply:umahunter has a good idea:Those little air recip saws rock for auto body work.  Buy a pile of coarse blades and crank up the air pressure.You can let them float through the cut, they are safe to use one-handed, and the price is right.
Reply:We're talking under water,fully submerged for a long time..........anyway to pump the water out,or unstop the culvert so it will drain,then try to cutLast edited by dugndeep; 04-23-2011 at 05:47 PM.Maxus Pro-125 MigChicago Electric 90 amp DC flux-coreLincoln Electric AC 225 tombstoneO/A torchM/O mini-torch10 acres of flatland15 acres of hollerUse a Demolition saw and pump as much water as you can before you start.
Reply:IF you know someone with a couple of portable sump pumps i would build a small coffer dam out of anything you can get your hands on that will hold the water pressure.      Doesn't need to be completely sealed.  It just has to leak slower than your pumps can pump.  Then you can go at it with a set of hip wadders and a torch.    and be quick about it.     I would recommend NOT getting into the trench box under any circumstances.   If it does fail theres a high likely hood that you will be seriously injured.If you have access to an excavator you can bring in some spoils or fill dirt and build a coffer damn around the pipe and plug both ends. Cut a couple of windows in the top of the pipe.   One to stick a pump in and one to just melt the culvert (you wont really be cutting it)  all the way around the yank the stub out with the excavator.   I would start at the bottom once you get the water out and work your way up the sides.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Or second thought do you have a Local fire department with a dive team?   Maybe you could convince them this would be a great training exerciseVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:What about underwater welding?  400 Amp DC, Electrode Negative and specially coated 6013.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:Originally Posted by nadogailWhat about underwater welding?  400 Amp DC, Electrode Negative and specially coated 6013.
Reply:Get a hoe, rack or back, and unclog the end of the culvert and let the water drain down to grade.Then it won't be under water and you'll have lots of ways to cut it.
Reply:Do you have an O\A torch? itl cut under water.just a thought.Travis
Reply:My first thought would be to use an air chisel.  If the intake to the compressor is not also under water, nothing will be pumping water.  Besides which, an air tool will run on pressurized water just as well as pressurized air until the lack of lubrication takes it's toll.  The air shear might actually be easier if it is rated for the thickness of material that you are cutting.Larry "I feel for the man who cannot spell a word more than one way."  by Mark TwainLincoln AC225-SLincoln Weldpac 100 Miller Matic 180 (auto set)Miller Spectrum 375 ExtremeMiller Spoolmate 100Victor Super Range II
Reply:the air recip saw is a good idea. the wheels will self destruct when wet!  as long as air is going into the tool. water cant get in!  and if it does so what. might want to oil often . . .cutting a big window in the top and working from the inside is  a good plan too.-- fredLincoln 180C MIG
Reply:see belowLast edited by tessdad; 04-24-2011 at 05:05 PM.Just my  opinion, not from a book, just from the road.Howes Welding Inc.www.howesweldinginc.com
Reply:My guess is that if you took a hole saw on a drill extension, and drilled a series of many holes from the top of the pipe And down the sides, it would drain down the area better, and when it was drier, go finish the job.And if there were multiple paths for the water to follow, it might not tend to accumulate the blockage on the one end as it does now.Just my  opinion, not from a book, just from the road.Howes Welding Inc.www.howesweldinginc.com
Reply:Originally Posted by tessdadMy guess is that if you took a hole saw on a drill extension, and drilled a series of many holes from the top of the pipe And down the sides, it would drain down the area better, and when it was drier, go finish the job.And if there were multiple paths for the water to follow, it might not tend to accumulate the blockage on the one end as it does now.
Reply:Wouldn't you figure as soon as you let off the trigger of an air supplied tool,water would go into exhaust and make it hard for the air tool to get going again just like when you don't have enough air in compressor to get air tool started?I'm anxious to see what will work and what won't.Last edited by dugndeep; 04-24-2011 at 06:36 PM.Maxus Pro-125 MigChicago Electric 90 amp DC flux-coreLincoln Electric AC 225 tombstoneO/A torchM/O mini-torch10 acres of flatland15 acres of holler
Reply:There is an easy way to cut submerged material (of any kind) by using some heavy chain with welded studs all over it. Dig out under the culvert, feed the chain under and through. hook each end to a tractor on opposite sides and drive back and forth. This will cut right through in short order depending on upward pressure. This is cheap and WILL work.Granthttp://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:Originally Posted by dugndeepWouldn't you figure as soon as you let off the trigger of an air supplied tool,water would go into exhaust and make it hard for the air tool to get going again just like when you don't have enough air in compressor to get air tool started?I'm anxious to see what will work and what won't.
Reply:I don't wanna sound like an a$s, but why in the world are you all going over impossibilities? Do you really think someone is going to go through the hassle of tracking down a diver to cut some culvert???The answer I supplied above is how this is handled on small underwater demolition up to massive ships!Try what works. This is CHEAP and easy and actually WORKS!http://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:There have been any number of options that don't require a diver. Tunneling under the pipe probably would, unless you happen to have a mole rig handy.  (we'd do it with HP water under say a barge) Most of the air tool options could be done simply standing in the water. The bottom might require holding your breath for short periods and wearing a mask so you can see what you are doing, but regs and tanks are not required.As I mentioned in the 2nd post, a bunch of sand bags (or dirt piled in the trench as also mentioned ) and pumping down the section with a readily available trash pump would dry the area and then conventional metal working tools would work. It's how stream crossings are done all the time in comstruction.In fact thinking a bit more about this, if it's standard spiral wound corragated pipe, you can simple slit the top a couple of feet and then pull the pipe apart.  as long as you go thru a full spiral section, it will seperate. Much like you do with BX armored cable sheathing. 12' of pipe I'd want to yank out with a back hoe or excavator, but a truck or tractor would work in a pinch..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:There are easy ways to tunnel under structures. One is the simple machine that lays cable. Bore under with machine, affix cable instead of wire to chain and pull through other side. No one gets under water, everyone stays safe and dry.The good with the chain sawing method is anything in the way on the upward travel is easily and cleanly cut.http://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:Originally Posted by RancherBillGet a hoe, rack or back, and unclog the end of the culvert and let the water drain down to grade.Then it won't be under water and you'll have lots of ways to cut it.
Reply:My battery was too far gone on my old drill and I'm not gonna dunk my new one to prove a point.Look at GHM's post part way down the page.http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/archive...hp/t-5555.htmlLot's of other examples of underwater boat repair with cordless tools.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by burntside bobI need to cut off 12 feet of a 30 inch wide culvert thats all under water, two feet of water covers the culvert.I thought for a very brief moment in time of using a battery powered sawsall, quickly acknowledging I would have a piece of junk in my hands in a few moments.Any suggestions of how to cut off the excess 12 feet of culvert?Its under a good road, and I do not want to dig it up to cut it off.
Reply:daddy,Maybe the culvert is a danger to boaters if it's the discharge side.  Or the end is in the shallow portion of the puddle if it's the intake?My name's not Jim....
Reply:What about cutting a slit in top so it doesn't collapse then take a back hoe or track hoe and use the teeth to cut thru the rest of culvert.If nothing else get a bend in it and then keep picking it up and down until it breaks off.Maxus Pro-125 MigChicago Electric 90 amp DC flux-coreLincoln Electric AC 225 tombstoneO/A torchM/O mini-torch10 acres of flatland15 acres of holler
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmMy battery was too far gone on my old drill and I'm not gonna dunk my new one to prove a point.Look at GHM's post part way down the page.http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/archive...hp/t-5555.htmlLot's of other examples of underwater boat repair with cordless tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by Boostinjdmdaddy,Maybe the culvert is a danger to boaters if it's the discharge side.  Or the end is in the shallow portion of the puddle if it's the intake?