Mystery weld and how not to repair a cylinder

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These cylinders showed up on my doorstep this morning. As you can see someone definitely used the wrong method to repair them. But what got me is I can't figure out what they welded them with. When grinding the weld out to remove the threaded stubs it made absolutely no sparks. I mean not one little spark till I hit the base metal. It grinds soft almost like aluminum but without gumming up the wheel. The clevis ends are cast iron so I assume this is some sort of cast iron rod but I've never seen anything like it. It's nothing like nickel rod. In color it's exactly like steel. I cut off a sliver and melted it on a fire brick. It didn't melt till it was a bright orange similar to steel.   So does anybody know of any mystery rods out there that act like this? Attached ImagesMillermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:JB WeldMetal reinforced epoxy????200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Irish, I don't know.. nickel chrome and cobalt chrome brazing materials have that ragged looking fracture when they fail.But they also fight a grinding wheel like crazy (haven't tried those new fangled hard aluminum wheels though).Got some nitric acid or nitrile mix?Matt
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireIrish, I don't know.. nickel chrome and cobalt chrome brazing materials have that ragged looking fracture when they fail.But they also fight a grinding wheel like crazy (haven't tried those new fangled hard aluminum wheels though).Got some nitric acid or nitrile mix?Matt
Reply:I've used Monel (MIL-4N1A, 70% Ni, 30% Cu, IIRC) for various jobs including attaching base plates to cast iron or stainless crucibles, and the joints look much like steel when done. Picked up some 3N10 ( 70% Ni, 15% Cr ) recently and used that for making a quickie 'sand anchor' by welding some heavy pipe, at an angle, to a curved piece of leaf spring; the pipe goes through the center of an old plow 'disc' which digs into the ground at an angle when the pipe shaft is pulled. Has to touch up the weld with a carbide burr, to fit the hole nicely (hadn't measured the clearance, and over-welded a bit...) but don't recall any sparks from it either.Last edited by Oldiron2; 05-18-2010 at 10:29 PM.
Reply:is it lead?the picture of the bolt and the threaded socket looks alot like lead battery clamps.Don't stick your fingers in your mouth after handling these!- mototig2010 Everlast Power Ultra 205-----50A Plasma / 200A Tig / 160A StickLincoln Arc 225ACNorthern MIG 130
Reply:Originally Posted by mototigis it lead?the picture of the bolt and the threaded socket looks alot like lead battery clamps.Don't stick your fingers in your mouth after handling these!
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2I've used Monel (MIL-4N1A, 70% Ni, 30% Cu, IIRC) for various jobs including attaching base plates to cast iron or stainless crucibles, and the joints look much like steel when done. Picked up some 3N10 ( 70% Ni, 15% Cr ) recently and used that for making a quickie 'sand anchor' by welding some heavy pipe, at an angle, to a curved piece of leaf spring; the pipe goes through the center of an old plow 'disc' which digs into the ground at an angle when the pipe shaft is pulled. Has to touch up the weld with a carbide burr, to fit the hole nicely (hadn't measured the clearance, and over-welded a bit...) but don't recall any sparks from it either.
Reply:Originally Posted by irish fixitCan't say that I've messed with any of those so I can't compare. It could be possible though I would find it surprising for a farmer to have rods like that.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2It's amazing what farmers (and blacksmiths and welders and...) can find that's army surplus; those 3N10 cost me $5 at a metal dealer/recycling shop for an old, open, nearly-full 5# 'can'.
Reply:Originally Posted by irish fixitBut then I can't say that I've ever used any of the 99% nickel rods (I really prefer to braze cast iron). That might be what was used but it seemed way to soft to me.  Unfortunately I've not got any nitric of any form around.
Reply:It may be Germanium. I used it one time a long time ago. It had similar properties that you are describing.Do not go where the path may lead, instead go where there is no path and leave a trail.
Reply:I know of the product name Certanium, but have never heard of Germanium, the element, being used to any significant extent in any steel or nickel  alloys; it is used in some Noble Metal alloys, and for semi-conductors. It's existence was predicted long before it was actually found, and its properties were expected to be similar to Silicon.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2I've used Monel (MIL-4N1A, 70% Ni, 30% Cu, IIRC) for various jobs including attaching base plates to cast iron or stainless crucibles, and the joints look much like steel when done. Picked up some 3N10 ( 70% Ni, 15% Cr ) recently and used that for making a quickie 'sand anchor' by welding some heavy pipe, at an angle, to a curved piece of leaf spring; the pipe goes through the center of an old plow 'disc' which digs into the ground at an angle when the pipe shaft is pulled. Has to touch up the weld with a carbide burr, to fit the hole nicely (hadn't measured the clearance, and over-welded a bit...) but don't recall any sparks from it either.
Reply:Posted by Me above:... Has to touch up the weld with a carbide burr, to fit the hole nicely...
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireNi99 won't spark but I can't remember the grind difficulty (gummy or not).Pure Nickel is quite soft and ductile files and bends easily.After 9/11 nitric is tough, you can call this company below link and see if they will sell you some of the solution #1 used in the test kits (it does the digesting with nitric solution). The kits themselves are cashy but last a lifetime for everyone but the NDT guys.http://koslow.com/metaltestkit.htmlMatt
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2I know of the product name Certanium, but have never heard of Germanium, the element, being used to any significant extent in any steel or nickel  alloys; it is used in some Noble Metal alloys, and for semi-conductors. It's existence was predicted long before it was actually found, and its properties were expected to be similar to Silicon.
Reply:Originally Posted by irish fixitI bet that's what it was. I've tried buying 99% nickel from my local sources before and none of them every have any on hand so I'm stuck with the 50% stuff usually. I rarely weld cast iron at any rate.  I'm sure nitric is going to be tough to get. We had a kit similar to that at my former employers to check for 304 or 316 in the stainless rack. We did a lot of stainless there.  What exactly does the nitric test for anyway?
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_Maguire50/55% is the stronger stuff anyway.On the nitric I just had a Doooo moment, check with a local jeweler, they use it to separate things.Nitric digests things (a drop on the finger gives that chain smoker look). I just use it to see if there "is alloy" by putting a few drops of water on the surface and then a drop of nitric.After the nitric digests, it poops different colors depending on what it eats.There are certain things it won't digest so it is also used to etch sections of welds for visual inspection.Matt
Reply:Originally Posted by irish fixitMy problem with the 50% is that it leaves everything way to hard.  Here's the final pics of the cylinder fix. Finally finished that today along with several other projects. I hopefully this repair will meet with more approval. :-)
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireLooks like a lot better solution that what you were given.On the 50/55Ni it's pretty high strength, Inco (the real NI-ROD trade name owner) offers 41, 55, 55X and 99X NI-ROD. The 55X is lower strength than other 55s and contains up to 65%Ni, the 99X is higher strength than other 99s and contains 80 some percent nickel.Unless you're welding at very high heat the transition from filler to parent gets hard.Link here;http://www.specialmetalswelding.com/...d/electrod.htmMatt
Reply:A source for high strength nitric acid in smaller quantities http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Nit...0ml-P6387.aspxRogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:This pics of the rod after it was cut looks almost like the toxic metal "cadmium."  Careful not to breath the fumes with that TOXIC metal.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Guys the discussion about Germanium, The rods I used where 5/32 and green as grass. I didn't see the box that they where out of, my boss just brought a fist full to me. He told me what they were, but I am sure that it wasn't pure, had to be some kind of alloy. These were used underground in the mines on the longwall shearer. From what I can remember it was a nice rod to work with, flowed like stainless, but that was like 25 years ago.Do not go where the path may lead, instead go where there is no path and leave a trail.
Reply:Just doing some reading on the web, it appears that germanium is brittle when it lies in state at normal temperatures.  Also, it produces "germanium whiskers" which is similar to "tin-whiskers."   "Whiskers" are very very bad for electronic components but apparently germanium whiskers can be contained withing solid state components.  It's used primarily in making fiber optics and solid state diodes in electronics.  Are you guys sure it's good and strong as a welding bead/rod etc..???   I'm not sure it has the tinsile strength neede to be worth a darn????  I can't see it being used as a welding rod.  But I've been known to be wrong before. Just ask'n...Last edited by SuperArc; 05-21-2010 at 12:29 PM.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life MemberOriginally Posted by Rog02A source for high strength nitric acid in smaller quantities http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Nit...0ml-P6387.aspx
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcThis pics of the rod after it was cut looks almost like the toxic metal "cadmium."  Careful not to breath the fumes with that TOXIC metal.
Reply:Originally Posted by RhinoriderGuys the discussion about Germanium, The rods I used where 5/32 and green as grass. I didn't see the box that they where out of, my boss just brought a fist full to me. He told me what they were, but I am sure that it wasn't pure, had to be some kind of alloy. These were used underground in the mines on the longwall shearer. From what I can remember it was a nice rod to work with, flowed like stainless, but that was like 25 years ago.