ideas on hoist setup inside garage

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My new garage will be started soon, the slab is being poured in about 2 weeks, then framing will start. My roof framing will be all LPI's spanned at 30'. I am trying to figure a way to add a way to hook my 2 ton chain hoist to the ceiling, which will be 11 feet high and would be great for lifting and loading all kinds of stuff. I don't think it is possible to fasten directly to the LPI's. I thought about running a 10 foot pipe thru them but I don't see how the web alone will hold the weight of lifting up to 2 tons. My other idea would be a steel box beam across the ceiling with supports at either end to the floor. For years I have been using a collapsible tripod made of 2" pipe, but it is a real pain to set up and the legs slide out too easily on concrete, plus it's a squeeze getting a truck underneath it.Any ideas that won't require a plan revision downtown?Last edited by bigb; 05-28-2011 at 09:13 PM.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:If you're going to do a beam, use an I beam.  That way you can hang the hoist from a trolley, and be able to move the load across the length of the beam..
Reply:2 tons on standar roof trusses no way. Spaning 30 feet with a 2 ton load will require a pretty hefty beam with supports better add some depth to your cement in this spot. Perhaps a rolling a frame would workMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Make sure to keep the slab wet for like 2 weeks.. don't allow them to spray it and call that sufficient ... Engineers who test concrete strength according to reaching the max based  the ingredients use 28 days wet as the baseline.   The rule is the least water when mixing .. just enough to allow placement...and then the max time wet after that... the longer it is kept wet the stronger it will be.Weldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:i don't think i'd want to suspend a 2 ton hoist from lpi's. perhaps a jib crane? or as you kinda indicated, perhaps an i-beam set on support posts. engineered components are engineered for their particular job and i'd think adding an additional 2t load in a fairly concentrated area would compromise them.ymmvI only drink when I'm by myself or with somebodymiller deltaweld 452 w/s62 and xr-wmiller trailblazer 302lincoln dc400 w/ln7eutectic tig rig hypertherm 900lincoln stt II w/ln742
Reply:bigb  -  A hoist is not an afterthought.  It is what the entire building is built around.  Instead of building a garage you can weld in;  build a shop you can park cars in.  Because you have not started yet, consider a structural redesign with your hoisting dreams considered first.   Opus
Reply:If I was building a new shop... I would include the crane into the design.I have a 10' span roll around gantry with a 2 ton chain hoist, inexpensive and doesn't take up too much space. Kind of a problem moving it around sometimes. Very flexible, I can even use it outside when needed.I'm currently mulling around something like snap trac for over my plasma table. The system is pre-engineered and fairly in-expensive. http://www.snaptrac.com/
Reply:The easy solution is make an engine hoist large enough to do whatever you want including hanging the chain fall to reach into engine bays on lifted trucks. That goes with anything else you do.For a trolley, consider steel posts bolted to the floor to support the beam. If you wish to change later, unbolt it (you wisely put anti-seize on the threads when you built it!), mount elsewhere, and cut the old anchors flush with a cutting wheel.
Reply:What's the dimensions of the garage?  If you sectioned off one end then your span would be shorter for a beam.  Think of making a "clean room".  You know, a place to park your toys so they won't get grinding dust all over them.You wouldn't necessarily have to build a solid wall.  Just a few posts with curtains strung between them would help.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanIf you're going to do a beam, use an I beam.  That way you can hang the hoist from a trolley, and be able to move the load across the length of the beam..
Reply:Check out J. Kings shop featured on CNC Cookbook.Link:http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCHallOfFame4.htmlHere are a couple of pics of what he did.  The Snap Trac looks too tall for your 11 foot ceilings. Attached Images
Reply:I agree; back to the drawing board with your hoist plan before the shop is built around it.Gantry Cranes are an often used after the fact solution.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:Without seeing your plans it's hard to imagine what would work best for you, but now is definatley the time to figure this out.  Even if this is a bolt up, cookie cutter building, the guys erecting it should be able to point you in the right direction, as far as what you are trying to do. And the concrete guys need to know NOW! if you are going to want piers added, have them set anchor plates,etc.
Reply:You might consider a small fork lift, I have a gantry that I never use since I bought the fork lift. Sometimes I use a chain fall in combination with the fork lift if I need to control the load and Im by my self.
Reply:Originally Posted by GBMMake sure to keep the slab wet for like 2 weeks.. don't allow them to spray it and call that sufficient ... Engineers who test concrete strength according to reaching the max based  the ingredients use 28 days wet as the baseline.   The rule is the least water when mixing .. just enough to allow placement...and then the max time wet after that... the longer it is kept wet the stronger it will be.
Reply:Here is one I thought was really cool, if you have the room up above...http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=8563- RyanLincoln Weld-Pak 140HDHypertherm Powermax 30HF 4x6 bandsawHF 21gal compressorCraftsman Commercial drill press4.5" Craftsman Professional angle grinder4.5" HF angle grinderOld benchtop table saw with a cutoff wheel and sawzall
Reply:Well thanks for all the tips. I like the I beam idea along with sectioning off an area. I can't really afford a plan revision at this point, I can however have the concrete guy add footings for the I beam support. Although my garage will be almost 1,000 square feet with a 10' door it is just a "hobbiest" garage, a place to build things and work on vehicles just for myself. Jim, I was planning on building some rolling racks out of emt with welding blankets stretched onto them, to section areas off and protect vehicles.woodweld, I just don't have room for a fork lift anywhere on my city lot.ryanPSD (powerstroke diesel?) thats a great plan, I can make something like that for my chain hoist to fit the I beam.In all reality the heaviest thing I would probably ever need to lift would be a diesel pickup engine. Although since it is a 2 ton hoist I want the support to be able to handle 2 tons.Although I did use it over the weekend to yank a stump the size of a Smart car.Last edited by bigb; 05-31-2011 at 10:35 PM.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:Put a pipe in one corner of the shop. Have an I beam welded to a short piece of the next bigger size of pipe. Put that pipe over the one in the corner and have a "A" frame with wheels, on the other end of the I beam. That way it can rotate in an arc around the shop and the winch can roll along the I beam. You would be able to get the hoist over almost any area of the shop. This is what I built in the last shop I had. I rented that shop and built it inside the building. I used a 12" 19# beam and it was 22' long. It would hold more than my winch would lift. Sorry that I don't have pictures of it as it worked great.
Reply:Jib cranes rule! I'd be lost without mine. Mine was built with the support above the beam. There are designs that will allow the crane to be right under the ceiling with the support below the beam. Attached ImagesQamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Originally Posted by bigb. . . lifting up to 2 tons. . . . Any ideas that won't require a plan revision downtown?
Reply:If it's too late for plan changes/revisions/alterations, then why did you ask us this late in the game?  As said, no way to just hang a 4000 lb load off of a 30 ft span truss.Jib cranes sure can be handy, but again the stucture has to be there first.  The structure AND the foundation.If the plans are all signed, sealed, delivered, stamped, and approved, then I think you're pretty much looking more for a gantry crane.http://www.harborfreight.com/automot...ane-41188.htmlhttp://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...+gantry-craneshttps://www.gorbel.com/Products/Gantry.aspx  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...hlight=toolman Hope this link  works. By far the best addition to the shop, I don't know how I got along without one.Miller 330 A/BP Bernard SS coolerMiller cst 250Miller Big Blue 251DCentury 210 Mig (first welder I bought)Hypertherm PowerMax 800Victor torch setRu Fong 31 MilAtlas lathe
Reply:Originally Posted by TSOR Spraying the surface with water does nothing but make the top white and is a personal preference - nothing to do with strength.  Overdoing it will actually ruin it.
Reply:Originally Posted by daddyI disagree. It slows the cure, and is a very good idea. Of course, you don't hose it while it is still soup...
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseIf it's too late for plan changes/revisions/alterations, then why did you ask us this late in the game?Originally Posted by TSORDisagree all you want - you are still incorrect.  Water does not affect the curing process of concrete.  Ask any contractor who has tried adding water to a "hot load" to slow it down...doesn't work.
Reply:I love it when the concrete experts come out.I need more popcorn.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:DDA52   -   With or without butter ?    OpusLast edited by OPUS FERRO; 06-03-2011 at 12:25 AM.Reason: punc.
Reply:Without.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:There's enough butter flavor in my popcorn salt (I use Flavacol in my machine), but neither butter nor salt should be used on curing concrete.Remember, heat the oil before adding the corn, and vent the steam from your pot, or you'll end up with tiny and mushy popcorn.  Then spray it with water for the next 28 days, and you'll end up with a product that is significantly more concrete like than if you skipped this step.
Reply:The concrete guy told me under no circumstances to wet the slab down, they use a curing chemical on it and he said if I wet it down it will do more harm than good. I am no expert on concrete, just repeating what he said, and this company has a very high reputation for their quality of work.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:Originally Posted by bigbThe concrete guy told me under no circumstances to wet the slab down, they use a curing chemical on it and he said if I wet it down it will do more harm than good. I am no expert on concrete, just repeating what he said, and this company has a very high reputation for their quality of work.
Reply:So when my neighbor who built a 5000 sq foot home near me,  had the concrete poured in a huge  irregular looking double L kinda thing and it cracked  big time at each intersection, that was a bad pour.  Then  they framed it within ten days... that was probably not bright huh?  We have sugar sand here and it is virtually impossible not to have a few cracks... EVERY piece I paid for and had poured has at least one.  They were cut with the saw etc after the pour for preplanned crcking etc  and about 6 months later U see those little cracks.   It depresses me frankly, I don't look at them.   Should I bother to seal them?  If so, with what? ONE thing I did right, when the "pros" told me they added fiberglass etc in the mix and I didn't need rebar.. I laughed and DEMANDED it.  So it cracks but it doesn't move.   They are wrong, at least for around here, ya' gotta rebar it. Wish  you well bigb on the pour, get done... it's getting hot soon.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:Originally Posted by PapaLionSo when my neighbor who built a 5000 sq foot home near me,  had the concrete poured in a huge  irregular looking double L kinda thing and it cracked  big time at each intersection, that was a bad pour.  Then  they framed it within ten days... that was probably not bright huh?  We have sugar sand here and it is virtually impossible not to have a few cracks... EVERY piece I paid for and had poured has at least one.  They were cut with the saw etc after the pour for preplanned crcking etc  and about 6 months later U see those little cracks.   It depresses me frankly, I don't look at them.   Should I bother to seal them?  If so, with what? ONE thing I did right, when the "pros" told me they added fiberglass etc in the mix and I didn't need rebar.. I laughed and DEMANDED it.  So it cracks but it doesn't move.   They are wrong, at least for around here, ya' gotta rebar it. Wish  you well bigb on the pour, get done... it's getting hot soon.
Reply:Well here it is, all 987 square feet. 33 yards, 5" thick with rebar grid. The footing is 12" (no frost here).The small building you see to the right is my present 200 sq foot workshop which will attach to the new garage for a total of 1187 sq feet. The garage will have a 10 x 20 door to accomodate my work trucks, and an 11 foot ceiling.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:Well here it is, all 987 square feet. 33 yards, 5" thick with rebar grid. The footing is 12" (no frost here).The small building you see to the right is my present 200 sq foot workshop which will attach to the new garage for a total of 1187 sq feet. The garage will have a 10 x 20 door to accomodate my work trucks, and an 11 foot ceiling.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:The first post froze up so I tried it again now theres two and its too late to delete one....Mods??Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:Looks nice, but why the outhouse?I can remember in the 7th grade my mom said "people will offer you drugs" by the 10th grade I was like, "where the hell are these people?"
Reply:Originally Posted by joefitzLooks nice, but why the outhouse?
Reply:Originally Posted by joefitzLooks nice, but why the outhouse?
Reply:Based on the drying pattern/residue, it looks like they used a sodium-silicate hardener/cure. If so, its good stuff. That is what I have used for decades and what I did on my own slab. Its also a dustproofer and can be reapplied as many times as you want in the future. I never bothered but some do. If the surface is burnished hard enough, you won't have any chalking issues.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS