Skid Steer Auger Drive Repair - NEED HELP

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Long story short - Friend let someone use his skid steer auger and they got it bound and busted the end housing and the shaft.  $1200 bucks for those two parts alone.  If I can't fix it, he's trashing the whole unit.I tried attaching the pictures in the text, and couldn't get it to work.  So sorry they are just attachments.Questions :  1) I think the black end housing is cast iron.  How much would you "V" the groove before welding ???  It's thicker than anything I've done before.2) On the end housing, should I TIG with SS filler, try some of the specialty MIG wire, or Stick weld.  What can I run multiple passes with if I use stick.  The CI rods I have now say single pass only.3) The shaft appears to be cast with steel inserted into it (is that possible??).  Same question as before.....how much groove/bevel.  What method would you use (TIG,MIG,Stick).I have all three types of welders.  I need to do some "spark tests" to see if I can nail down what the shaft is made from.  Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.
Reply:Sounds like somebody owes somebody $1200. Best of luck to ya.
Reply:I should have worded it differently......Normally my friend runs the machine, but he let the other guy run it.  You've seen the result.  This was on a job, not a "loaned out" situation.
Reply:Man the shearing force and what it did to that piece is bad.   I know there's someone here that has the knowledge on how to fix that piece.  I can see why a job like that would also be very expensive.  Best of luck to you. Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Mail it to Zapster.....he gets all the "fun" jobs!
Reply:Originally Posted by bl8tantLong story short - Friend let someone use his skid steer auger and they got it bound and busted the end housing and the shaft.  $1200 bucks for those two parts alone.  If I can't fix it, he's trashing the whole unit.I tried attaching the pictures in the text, and couldn't get it to work.  So sorry they are just attachments.Questions :  1) I think the black end housing is cast iron.  How much would you "V" the groove before welding ???  It's thicker than anything I've done before.2) On the end housing, should I TIG with SS filler, try some of the specialty MIG wire, or Stick weld.  What can I run multiple passes with if I use stick.  The CI rods I have now say single pass only.3) The shaft appears to be cast with steel inserted into it (is that possible??).  Same question as before.....how much groove/bevel.  What method would you use (TIG,MIG,Stick).I have all three types of welders.  I need to do some "spark tests" to see if I can nail down what the shaft is made from.  Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.
Reply:Do a spark test on it to determine if it is cast iron or cast steel. I would say from the looks of the break it had been broken for a while and finally fell apart.If it is cast steel it can be repaired much easier than if cast iron. On either repair the alignment is going to be critical. On either material the whole break will have to be beveled out and free of any shattered material. What ever the material and on an old machine with the cost of the parts it is worth a few hours labor to try and salvage it.Find out what its made of then maybe we can give tou some advice on how to repair.
Reply:My ok boss did the same thing to his auger on his ls185t new holland.He was trying to "stretch" a hole by driving forward.  It can be welded up. Just take your time, and follow the above stated procedure.Miller bobcat 225g  - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:Great advice guys !  I need to get the spark tests done and really try to nail down the metal type.  I really hope that shaft is cast steel.  If I can get it fixed, I can always make a new end housing with some enginuity.I was wondering about that rust also.  This thing was busted back in december and sat outside since.  So I'm not sure if there was previous fatigue cracks or not.  It was broken by driving forward just like astaindsoul5466 described.  Did I mention they also BENT the extension the auger was mounted on ?   My buddy had walked away for awhile and when he came back the operator said "It just broke....we weren't bearing down on it"......yeah right !
Reply:This may sound like a dumb question.....can I use my plasma cutter to do alot of the beveling ?  I've never used it on cast, and I was concerned the extreme heat of the plasma might affect the metallurgy.  Otherwise I better stock up on grinding wheels
Reply:If your hands are steady, then yes you should be able to use your plasma.  Me personally, I'm not that steady with a plasma or torch, and I'd opt to grind or find a machinist to turn a bevel on a lathe, just to be sure I didn't inflict more damage by accident. Originally Posted by bl8tantThis may sound like a dumb question.....can I use my plasma cutter to do alot of the beveling ?  I've never used it on cast, and I was concerned the extreme heat of the plasma might affect the metallurgy.  Otherwise I better stock up on grinding wheels
Reply:Originally Posted by bl8tantThis may sound like a dumb question.....can I use my plasma cutter to do alot of the beveling ?  I've never used it on cast, and I was concerned the extreme heat of the plasma might affect the metallurgy.  Otherwise I better stock up on grinding wheels
Reply:I would go along with getting it to a machine shop to be beveled and fixed so it's lined up true before you start welding. Spark test to see material and then preheat and weld with correct filler. That much material stick or mig. Tig would take forever to get a puddle going I would think. Full depth bevel and weld would be the correct way to do it.
Reply:All great info ! Thanks and keep it coming.  I talked to a (the only) local LWS owner today, and I'm going to take the pieces to him to get a "second opinion" on the material and see what he suggests for filler material.  He's an old-timer (my dad who is 67 worked for him years ago at a filling station he owned) and I'm curious what he has to say.  If the pieces were all regular steel I'd be done by now.  Cast anything makes me second guess everything I think I know.Maching would be nice, but there are none nearby.  Powermax 45 w/ gouging tip and my grinders are gonna get a workout If I can get the shaft repaired, I make just fab up a new end housing using some plate and heavy pipe/tubing.  I've already received partial payment (12 gallons of 15w-30 Rotella)  , so I need to get started on this thing.
Reply:Originally Posted by bl8tantAll great info ! Thanks and keep it coming.  I talked to a (the only) local LWS owner today, and I'm going to take the pieces to him to get a "second opinion" on the material and see what he suggests for filler material.  He's an old-timer (my dad who is 67 worked for him years ago at a filling station he owned) and I'm curious what he has to say.  If the pieces were all regular steel I'd be done by now.  Cast anything makes me second guess everything I think I know.Maching would be nice, but there are none nearby.  Powermax 45 w/ gouging tip and my grinders are gonna get a workout If I can get the shaft repaired, I make just fab up a new end housing using some plate and heavy pipe/tubing.  I've already received partial payment (12 gallons of 15w-30 Rotella)  , so I need to get started on this thing.
Reply:These parts might be on the large side for it, but brazing or O/A welding (with preheat and slow cooling) should not be overlooked - especially not when it comes to repairing cast iron. The lower temperature used for brazing reduces alot of the problems when working with cast iron, the slower more even heating and using actual cast iron as filler is also a way to avoiding problems with a weld that cools too quick and is made up of something diffrent than the base metal - such as nickel rods.Have a 50 year old O/A welding handbook. If I remember correctly the instructions for cast iron is basically "Make a U-groove (not V), preheat it well (how much depends on the shape, but if it's glowing it's a good start), use high carbon high silicon cast iron filler and a good cast iron welding flux, pack it in insulation to let it cool down very slow when you're done."
Reply:I have not had a chance to get started on the repair, but I do have a solid plan and I know what I'm working with....The end housing is cast ( I think we all knew that one), and upon really close inspection, I found several fractures that did not break and they are in critical places.  I wouldn't trust a repair, so I'm going to make a new one.  I will need to have a "bushing" machined and I'll post some pics when I get it finished.The shaft is cast steel, and with the new housing it should not encounter much lateral force (mostly torque).  I am going to try a welded repair on this one.  The local LWS old-timer recommended 7018 rod.  I'm much more handy with MIG and I may go that route.  Now I just need to decide between the ProMig 180 or use the LN25 feeding off my engine drive......   Becuase of where the break is located, my bevel will be "normal" on one side, but the other will just have to make do with a steeper (near vertical) bevel.  Alignment is gonna be tricky.Thank You all for the advice and I will post post pics of the finished product (may take me a few weeks to get the time to do it....but "I'll be back".
Reply:Originally Posted by G-sonThese parts might be on the large side for it, but brazing or O/A welding (with preheat and slow cooling) should not be overlooked - especially not when it comes to repairing cast iron. The lower temperature used for brazing reduces alot of the problems when working with cast iron, the slower more even heating and using actual cast iron as filler is also a way to avoiding problems with a weld that cools too quick and is made up of something diffrent than the base metal - such as nickel rods.Have a 50 year old O/A welding handbook. If I remember correctly the instructions for cast iron is basically "Make a U-groove (not V), preheat it well (how much depends on the shape, but if it's glowing it's a good start), use high carbon high silicon cast iron filler and a good cast iron welding flux, pack it in insulation to let it cool down very slow when you're done."
Reply:Originally Posted by bl8tantI have not had a chance to get started on the repair, but I do have a solid plan and I know what I'm working with....The end housing is cast ( I think we all knew that one), and upon really close inspection, I found several fractures that did not break and they are in critical places.  I wouldn't trust a repair, so I'm going to make a new one.  I will need to have a "bushing" machined and I'll post some pics when I get it finished.The shaft is cast steel, and with the new housing it should not encounter much lateral force (mostly torque).  I am going to try a welded repair on this one.  The local LWS old-timer recommended 7018 rod.  I'm much more handy with MIG and I may go that route.  Now I just need to decide between the ProMig 180 or use the LN25 feeding off my engine drive......   Becuase of where the break is located, my bevel will be "normal" on one side, but the other will just have to make do with a steeper (near vertical) bevel.  Alignment is gonna be tricky.Thank You all for the advice and I will post post pics of the finished product (may take me a few weeks to get the time to do it....but "I'll be back".