Wow, this weld is bad - newb tig

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The other day I welded some aluminum... I didn't realize that aluminum retained so much heat and my welds just kept getting worse. I was burning holes through the aluminum, aluminum warped..... only had about 2 good beads.A buddy comes over today and we attempt to weld a few things. Neither of us have tigged before and I have never welded anything before.Friend got on it and tungsten and ceramic went black burning holes through everything. Couldn't get puddles started. In any event, we both looked at each other knowing how bad it looked. We have a lot of work a head of us!!!! Attached Images
Reply:Aluminum does not retain heat. it dissipates it.  its a giant heatsink thus needs about 25% more amps than you would use for steel of the same thickness  this link is your friend Miller Tig resourcesYou need to give us details on what machines, settings, tungsten size, welding gas and flow, polarity etc.  I am guessing from the pics you have the setting wrong to start with.  Also TIG has to have clean metal to work.   aluminum needs a stainless steel brush and acetone to clean itstart learning with steel, not Aluminum and does your machine have a pedal?Download this TIG handbook from Miller and READ IT ALL. http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/TIGhandbook/ then come back and ask questions and we will get you going.  TIG takes many hours of practice.    IF you want Quick instant gratification get a MIG or some KY and a dirty magazine..  you will not get it with TIGLast edited by soutthpaw; 09-25-2012 at 04:04 PM.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:What gas were you using?.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Did you have the gas on?I've forgotten it a few times and it will make things black.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:All of that mess is "no shielding has was used in this production."Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller Spectrum 250DMiller Millermatic 200Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....
Reply:That first pic made me Ummmm... yeah.More gas would help.Did you ever take it off A.C. to try the steel?Along with other issues but as soon as you can at least get things happening without all this stuff flying all over your cup...I'll wait....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:You've been dipping haven't you?  Clean that torch up and re-grind the tungsten.Contaminated tungsten will make black also.How far is the tungsten sticking out from the cup?Perhaps a visual will help you.  Go visit www.weldingtipsandtricks.com and watch some of Jody's videos.
Reply:I checked the gas, we actually kind of thought we had too much gas (argon)... obviously not . I had it set to 5 psi.The first night I tried on the aluminum I actually was able to weld some decent beads (2 of them ). I started getting worse as I went on not realizing how hot the aluminum was getting. I put tungsten on diamond wheel. Tungsten was sticking out about 3/16 maybe? After my friend got a hold of it that turned to about 0. Somehow he fried the tungsten. Tungsten was nice looking until he got a hold of it.I just needed to try it, even though I knew it would look bad. I have been watching some videos and doing some slight online reading, but need to learn a lot more.It was funny, even with me never tigging I was telling my friend how to tig:what:. He has only migged. So, he started off as he would with a mig. I had to tell him to create a puddle then push the puddle, dab the rod at the tip of the puddle. He still kept putting the tungsten right on top of the rod.I was using a Diversion 180 hooked up to 115v. Was switching between steel and aluminum when needed.That normal buzzing sound wasn't really happening today. Kept getting a soft flame like sound.... another thing. My work surface the first night was clean (aluminum was shiny). That is why on the aluminum I only welded on one certain area. The rest of the metal today, not so much...Thought I'd share my failures, though.Last edited by just_some_dude; 09-25-2012 at 06:45 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWWhat gas were you using?
Reply:Did a bit more tonight. Checked the gas line and there was a very slow leak. So, hopefully I fixed it. Moved my gas up to about 7 psi.Ran the tungsten over a diamond wheel to clean it up a bit. At the end it looked a bit ugly.Also welded a piece of aluminum to aluminum. The small piece expanded a bunch. Then cooled.Is it normal for it to make the buzzing sound on aluminum, but not on steel? Attached Images
Reply:Something tells me you're running co2....Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller Spectrum 250DMiller Millermatic 200Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....
Reply:It is weird. I only started having this issue with the ceramic and tungsten after my friend used it. Don't know how he did, but ever since then I've had issues. Before this I didn't have any heating issues, burning, or build up.
Reply:loose the nasty cup. TIG REQUIRES clean.  once you have it clean. clean it some more then you can then try again. stick with steel. its much more forgiving to learn with. once you are laying nice beads on steel then consider going back to aluminum. I get it, steel is not as glamorous as aluminum. but your just making a mess get the basics down first.Offering CNC Plasma cutting and welding projects.Follow me on facebook https://www.facebook.com/nobigdeal.fabSupport those that support WW.
Reply:A velvet lined cup? Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:It is weird. I only started having this issue with the ceramic and tungsten after my friend used it. Don't know how he did, but ever since then I've had issues. Before this I didn't have any heating issues, burning, or build up.
Reply:Originally Posted by jontheturboguySomething tells me you're running co2....
Reply:Next time turn the gas on first.
Reply:if you have the right gauge on the regulator it shoudnt read psi..it should read cfh..set it to 15 ..
Reply:Checked regulator. It was set to cfh. I'll get new ceramic, tungsten and change the flow to 15.We were welding dirty metal... I didn't seem to have these issues when I welded the clean aluminum originally.
Reply:If you aluminum is shiny,  its not clean.   clean aluminum will have a "brushed aluminum:" matte appearance to it because you just brushed it with a stainless steel brush to get the aluminum oxide coating off it..Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Set the gas flow between 12-15 CFH (not psi) and make sure it's 100% argon. Also check to be sure the hose isn't bent or kinked.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Show us a pic of your pre-weld tungsten prep job as well.-AaronJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:Here is what I will be working with later. I grinded and sanded the aluminum, put acetone on it. I will use the stainless brush before I actually weld. Replaced tungsten (put on diamond wheel with drill) and ceramic. Attached Images
Reply:What I do is hit the pedal and let the argon preflow and look at the gauge then set it to a minimal of 12cfh while it's flow so I know I have the amount needed. Just a fyi.How about a picture of the sticker on the tank to see what gas you have?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Pic of sticker on tank attached.I haven't even used the pedal yet . I am basically welding on the floor.... well if I attached it it would have been attached! Try again. Attached Images
Reply:Get rid of that green tungsten.  It's wrong for an inverter, and is one cause of your issues. Red, gray or blue is the best choice.  It will work for both AC and DC without issue.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldGet rid of that green tungsten.  It's wrong for an inverter, and is one cause of your issues. Red, gray or blue is the best choice.  It will work for both AC and DC without issue.
Reply:Originally Posted by just_some_dudePic of sticker on tank attached.I haven't even used the pedal yet . I am basically welding on the floor.
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldGet rid of that green tungsten.  It's wrong for an inverter, and is one cause of your issues. Red, gray or blue is the best choice.  It will work for both AC and DC without issue.
Reply:Green is bad for inverters. I have had great luck using ceriated and lanthiated on my dynasty. Ceriated for low power stuff, lanth for ac.Miller: 200dx, Bobcat 225, Passport, Powermax 45, Milwaukee: Dry Saw, MagDrill, grinders
Reply:The latest attempt. Still haven't used the foot pedal. Did a little experimenting as I went on as you can probably tell. I did switch over to a red tungsten.That big black line across the bottom of the aluminum... I didn't have the Diversion set to aluminum... oops.So far, just rolling beads, aluminum seems a lot easier.  ...I don't know if it will have that great an impact, but I used the same tungsten for the steel. So, the tip of the tungsten was flat and not sharp/pointy.I did notice that for a good 10 seconds the gas flowed after I completed each weld. Didn't notice that before. Attached Images
Reply:Just another FYI,Try not to sand Aluminum.  The abrasives can embed in the metl and cause contamination.  Also, green tungsten can be used in an inverter. It just balls up and gets annoying to use.  You can use red on aluminum if you have it.  Buy some 2% Lanthanated.  Best of both worlds.  About $20 on eBay for 3/32.If you wanna check for any gas issues, clean an Aliminum coupon and a tungsten.  No filler.  Arc onto the aluminum and make a few tiny swirls. You should have a perfect silver area with white frosting.  If there is any discoloration, there's a gas problem of some type. This is how I finally figured out I got a bad bottle of Ar from a supplier.  I was going nuts.Last edited by Drf255; 09-27-2012 at 05:31 AM.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Practice on steel forget about aluminum till you capture your skill on steel.When you take flying lessons you don't solo in a DC 9.Get the basics under control.The rest is easy.Practice practice practice.It is just like flying you need the seat time."NOTHING ELSE"Did I mention practice!!!Weld on a bench not on the floor!You are getting sound advice not much sense in posting results if its not followed.My2¢V
Reply:Also make sure those wire brushes in that pic are stainless, not steel, when welding aluminum.
Reply:Yeah, I got a steel brush for general metals and a stainless brush for aluminum only.Regarding posting and not following directions, this has been over a few days, in that I've only attempted 3 times and each time was a 15 min period. Not like I'm spending hours on it at the time. Only reason I am doing it on the floor is because I need to get some metal legs for the metal plate that I have. I need to know how to weld them on first . In this thread I have learned a lot so far! and actually fixed a few things I was doing wrong. Although my welds are pretty bad, I feel between posting my first image, getting some feedback, and trying again I've done a lot better. I know I have a long way to go, but I'm also not afraid to make mistakes. I knew this was going to be a challenge. I've never welded in my life and I am starting with TIG.I think the feedback I've received so far has been awesome. I also know newbs are a bit annoying because it is the same stuff over and over again.
Reply:Are you certain that you are welding Aluminum? For some reason I keep thinking that you are welding a different kind of metal such as maybe stainless or galvanized steel. I am by no means an expert on Aluminum, but you need AC Current and Hi-Frequency. If you are using a Cheap AC buzz box, such as a Lincoln AC-DC Tombstone Welder, that will by no means work. You must have a tig welding machine capable of AC and Hi-Frequency - such a Tig Welding Machine would be a Miller Dynasty 200 DX. (as example)You also need to have an idea of what Aluminum you are welding - there are many grades and castings of aluminum. If you are welding Aluminum, and the electrode is not specific (such as for practice) purchase Aluminum 4043 or 5356. Lastly, grab a popcan, and flip it upside down. The bottom of the can is all aluminum. The bottom is actually *thicker* than the sides of the can, and you should be able to run a small bead on the bottom of the popcan or atleast strike an arc.If you strike an arc and make a mess of the bottom of the popcan (which the bottom of the popcan is clean aluminum) then something is either wrong with the machine, wrong polarity, no hi freq start, wrong gas, etc.46’ sae30047’ sa200 w/Wisconsin VF451’ shorthood56’ shorthood56’ shorthood68’ redface69 redface07’ ranger 305G13’ sae300Inconel/Hastelloy – SS – Duplex – Chrome/Carbon Tig – F3Downhand – STT/RMD – F3F4 – B Pressure
Reply:Here is a link to Welding Tips & Tricks on youtube.. Watch this video. It is about getting good practice with aluminum.46’ sae30047’ sa200 w/Wisconsin VF451’ shorthood56’ shorthood56’ shorthood68’ redface69 redface07’ ranger 305G13’ sae300Inconel/Hastelloy – SS – Duplex – Chrome/Carbon Tig – F3Downhand – STT/RMD – F3F4 – B Pressure
Reply:Definitely have a tig. It is a Diversion 180.I watched that video, was impressed. I was trying to weld over some of my beads with out a lot of luck. I haven't tried since I got everything 'in order'.I am using 4043 on the aluminum. Pretty sure it is not stainless.I do have a piece of regular steel in the pics as well... I was using 70S on the steel. I seem to have more luck with aluminum than I do with steel so far.
Reply:U could try having a buddy video u welding by putting camera behind welding lens.   Then post the video. I am sure u will get some good feedback then.    U need darkest possible shade for doing a good video. If you have an adjustable hood then turn it up to 13 or 14Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:You are doing great. The alum looks good enough to keep practicing on it. I saw a recommendation to flow minimum 12cfh with your cup and I agree. Now that you have gotten the alum under way, try more amps, feed the rod harder and move your puddle faster. Alum sinks out the heat fast then falls apart. Keep up the good work!Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Thanks for the feedback and encouraging words! I'm definitely enjoying the little bit I have done so far. I am going to attempt to build a downdraft table as my first project. Base it on the welding tips and tricks down draft table on YouTube. Have the majority of steel and HF ventilator, just need to get sheet metal.I'll try to get some video in the near future. Right now I only have one helmet (Jackson). I guess I could always hit up HF and buy one of their cheap helmets.
Reply:Been messing with steel a little more recently. I was doing beads on a 32" lawnmower blade just for practice. I grind the parts that I will be welding on. I decided to put it through a cut off saw and experiment some more and weld the pieces to each other. Also, had another piece of steel I randomly welded on. I cut the blade into 5 separate pieces. I changed what is was using before and used a different setup. I went from 3/32 to 1/16 grey tungsten. Purchased gas lens and went from 7 alumina to 6. I am around 12-15 on argon. Using different filler rod sizes. Set at around 110 on DC. Attached ImagesLast edited by just_some_dude; 10-10-2012 at 05:57 PM.
Reply:Hi, why don't you get a flow meter, the type with the small ball in a glass tube.....that's fool proof......ball rises if/when the gas flows.Ian.
Reply:Hard to explain bud, but it seems like your just plain old all over the place. Too fast in spots, too slow in spots, too much filler in spots, not enough filler in spots, too hot in spots, too cold in spots, and some spots look pretty good. I would suggest just try and be consistent, even if its wrong, and then improve off that. I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:What happened?Your alum looked better. And people keep saying that steel is for beginners.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:BTW, that lawn mower blade would be hi tensile steel, a lot different to cold rolled or hot rolled mild steel, and it's probably coated with grass juice residue that gets into the grain structure, and comes out when it gets heated.There appears to be a lot of surface rust and scale on most of the test pieces or scrap metal in the photos......when steel "ages", that is when it lays around and aquires a coating of rust, no matter how you clean the surface, the rust gets into the lower grain structure and comes out when you melt the surface layer, and tig is very unforgiving with dirty metal surfaces.For a test/practice run, you need to have everything almost perfect, so get a few pieces of 1/8" hot rolled steel, not cold rolled, that stuff will have surface scale and you want to start with the best conditions.Old tubing is the worst scenario to weld with Tig, the inside has a rust problem that you can't get at, but when you weld on the outside the bottom/inside melts too and the rust and gunge gets into the weld pool and you get a black gungy mess that just won't flow cleanly, has the appearance of a claggy clinker.....in trying to get the claggy mess to melt you make the problem worse by overheating the weld zone and then blowing a hole.I have found that with tig you need to....get in, get it done and get out again as quickly as you can....prolonged heating to form the "ideal" bead just oxidises the weld puddle and you get ....CLAG.In my opinion, and judging by the blobs of metal in some of the beads, you are moving forward too much in jerky stops and starts, that just exposes a cold zone and the filler just beads on top of the metal base before the pool has reformed.If you haven't got enough amps dialed or pedalled in, you get a stop start appearance with a series of blobs sitting on top of the base metal.....in other words move forward and back as you go forwards, but not too much at a time.If you pause too long when you go back you tend to have a large melt pool depression form, (this is very apparent at the start of the weld) and when you go forward the cold zone just piles the metal on top.I come from a background of working with Oxy/Acc and silver solder on stainless, and in that process you don't hesitate in one spot for too long, so Tig came naturally to me at first go.Ian.
Reply:Originally Posted by puddytat so get a few pieces of 1/8" hot rolled steel, not cold rolled, that stuff will have surface scale and you want to start with the best conditions
Reply:Thanks for all the feedback! I'll try to get a hold of a flow meter and get some new metal. This is pretty much all the metal I have at the moment to work with. I am going to try to get a hold of some random scraps of steel and aluminum. I will look into hot rolled versus cold rolled. Originally Posted by weldermikeHard to explain bud, but it seems like your just plain old all over the place. Too fast in spots, too slow in spots, too much filler in spots, not enough filler in spots, too hot in spots, too cold in spots, and some spots look pretty good. I would suggest just try and be consistent, even if its wrong, and then improve off that.
Reply:Yeah, believe me, i know what its like looking around your shop trying to find some material to practice on, but do yourself a favor and aquire some decent stuff to practice on. By using crappy old steel your introducing challenges that a beginner ( like myself) just ends up fighting and getting yourself frustrated as well. Good practice material will allow you to practice To where its just you and good clean steel. Once you get decent at welding on the flat, then start experimenting with butts, laps and fillets. I jumped right into aluminum very early on, but I treated it like a completely different animal and when I tried steel on DC, it seemed way easy. Kind of backwards, but it seems to be working out ok. I thought stainless would be a breeze, but then i turned my coupons over and saw otherwise. I guess my point is to make it easy on yourself and get some good stuff. Stack beads on beads and get the technique down.Good luck.Oz