Help me with my TIG skills! frustrated...

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As most of you know I built a radiator over flow/expansion tank for my fathers impala ss.. Well, I decided to build them to sell and make some money. Zap has helped me out with turning the filler necks I need (Thanks again!!) and I have since made my second tank. I'm not to happy with ALL the welds and have some reoccurring issue that I can't seem to get past, I'm not sure it's me, or if it's my consumables.. but some of the welds are "bigger" then they should be,  So here goes.1/8"  3003 aluminum Machine - Diversion 165 (great little machine btw)  set at 120-125 amps with the pedal at 3/4-flooredStraight argon-15psitungsten-3/32,2% ceriatedRod-3/32,4043This isn't to bad, not perfect, but not bad.continue on next page.www.thefusionsolution.com
Reply:ehhh...CRAP! my defense, there was a gap in the corner (round peg square hole)www.thefusionsolution.com
Reply:Meh...Some are good, others not so much, and the corner, just plain out sucks.. they work, they hold, they are strong enough, just ugly.I have to make new templates with the corner rounded to eliminate that gap, that will be on the next one..www.thefusionsolution.com
Reply:Also, the next set of stuff I'm cutting out has one side pvc coated, can I weld the corners with PVC still on the material? I of course will cut it back about an inch from the edge.www.thefusionsolution.com
Reply:I can't help you with the TIG welding, but your preparation seems to be lacking a bit. All your shots make the work piece look dirty or oxidized. How are you prepping the work? Maybe it's just this crappy monitor making everything look dull.
Reply:It's probably the lighting when I took the pictures, I wipe everything down with acetone before I weld it. the lest one I did, I wire brushed the seams, and then I couldn't get all the damn scratches out, and upon reading on here, you don't "need" to wire brush everything..www.thefusionsolution.com
Reply:Originally Posted by speedfreak87It's probably the lighting when I took the pictures, I wipe everything down with acetone before I weld it. the lest one I did, I wire brushed the seams, and then I couldn't get all the damn scratches out, and upon reading on here, you don't "need" to wire brush everything..
Reply:everything I learned says I should, but the scratches!!!!  I have yet to figure out how to do it without scratching it up. No, I haven't thought about trying thoriated, I'll have to pick some up and give it a shot.  As for not using filler at all, it's a pressurized tank, no filler I feel out be a little risky, no?I was using a cut off wheel on a grinder, and have since moved up to the circular saw with carbide tip only being used for aluminum.  As for where I get it, two places, the stuff I used on this tank and the first one I bought from metal supermarket, I have a depot near me so it was easier, but, they don't have pvc coating, so you get all the scratches, I have another sheet that I will be cutting this week that I got from onlinemetals.com, one side pvc, and it was about the same price shipped to my door, so I'm not losing any money on it. I though maybe I'm using to thick of filler wire?www.thefusionsolution.com
Reply:Looks like your tempo with the rod vs travel speed is off. Because of this, your beads appear cold in some spots (too much filler) and hot in other spots (dull colored and smooth bead).Get your tempo and rhythm better...
Reply:Originally Posted by speedfreak87everything I learned says I should, but the scratches!!!!  I have yet to figure out how to do it without scratching it up.
Reply:If you angle the torch pointing over too far towards your filler rod, the tip of the filler rod can melt back (to varying degrees) and cause an inconsistent amount of filler material to be added to the molten pool when you dip it.  That can cause the "uneven, lumpy" weld bead look.What happens when the filler rod melts back, is that when you go to add it into your puddle, you might not quite reach the puddle, and you might then need to linger around in that spot with your torch much longer, while your filler rod hand "catches up" moving the rod out.  If you didn't see that it didn't reach the puddle and moved on with your torch anyway, you just made a low spot in the weld bead.  And when you finally get the melted filler pumped out (or otherwise moved out with your rod feeding hand) far enough to reach the puddle, by that time it may have a big molten blob on the end that when it wicks over into your weld puddle, will make a corresponding "big blob" in your weld bead.You can often correct the problem of your filler rod tip melting back, with a minor torch angle adjustment.  The torch angle affects the direction of the gas plume coming out of the cup, a portion of which is super-heated by the arc and carries a great deal of heat along with it.  By changing the angle of the torch so it points more towards one direction or another, it will bias where the super-heated gas gets pushed.  A small torch angle adjustment can make a profound impact.  Weld joint geometry also does matter, and "on the fly" torch angle adjustments may be necessary as you encounter different weld joint geometry, to control the heat.  By the way, your welds don't look that bad.  Some of your straight outside corner joints are downright decent!PS - Another tip: if you ever notice your filler rod tip melting back, you can always immediately stop welding, nip the melted blob off your filler rod end, and restart the weld (hopefully with an adjustment to the torch angle, so it won't melt back again.)  Although you'll have an extra restart (frosty cathodic clean/etched ring around the restart area) in your weld bead, hopefully you will have avoided a big blob in the bead.Last edited by jakeru; 08-22-2011 at 02:26 PM.
Reply:125 amps is a shade low for 1/8", at least to get the bead going. I'd set the machine at 150amps or a shade more, so you have the extra power to get the bead going fast. If you are floored full time, you need to up the power. You should be able to get the puddle going fast and then back down from there as the material starts to heat up. Many of the rest of the comments are good points. Evenly and consistantly adding filler is one of those things it takes guys at the tech school a long time to get down well with alum, especially on outside corners. As far as cleaning, alum does need to be clean. However, if you are doing outside corners with the inside edges just touching and  are filling in the V thats created, the saw cut will be clean enough if done shortly before welding ( not cut 2 weeks in advance) and then wiped down with acetone. In reality you probably are not getting the bead down on the face of the plate much if you are doing this correctly..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Well I'm surely no expert but I am going through the learning process on GTAW aluminum and your welds don't look all that bad for a beginner. I don't know how many hours of this process you have but you may just need more practice. Like DSW said, it takes a long time to get consistent bead profiles that you are happy with. Also, it sounds like you may be a bit of a perfectionist (something I do have experience with, unfortunately) and its easy to become disappointed when you don't get the results you are expecting from yourself.On the photo of the corner bead that you said had a gap, it looks a little toasty like you cooked it with too slow a travel speed. My instructors kept hammering the same thing to me over and over "hot and fast, hot and fast". Of course, they were right. Keep at it and try the suggestions you get on this forum from those with the experience.Oh, last thing... is onlinemetals the only place you can get aluminum stock from in your area? Man their prices seem really high to me. I looked at a few things from them and was shocked. Good luck with it.Eric
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleJust an odd question have you tried not using filler at all?
Reply:I tack everything together then very carefully fold the bristles of the wire brush together and brush just where you are going to weld. Good finishes are tedious work.
Reply:I'm by no means an expert in welding Al.  But in school, our teacher has us brush the dickens out of our welding area on Al then begin welding it immediately.  He claims that within 30s or less of brushing the welding area that the oxidizing layer can return making for a lousy weld.  Try it, it makes a hell of a difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by jontheturboguyLooks like your tempo with the rod vs travel speed is off. Because of this, your beads appear cold in some spots (too much filler) and hot in other spots (dull colored and smooth bead).Get your tempo and rhythm better...
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleDoes the circular saw work well? I was thinking of picking up a small band saw or the one that looks like an upsidedown  jig saw (name forgets me right now). What thickness plates did you use?
Reply:DSW,You beat me to it.All he did with all his "guidance" is prove that he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.The "thoriated tungsten" was also a doozy.  I hate thoriated in AC (even with an inverter).  Forms a series of small balls around the tip which drop off in the puddle.To the OP,Did you really expect to produce "professional quality" welds at your experience level?There's no substitute for "hood time".  Consistency comes with time.There are several tricks of the trade that are not (due to lack of adjustability of the Diversion) available to you.  Keep at it and in a few years it will all seem so simple.  Oh, and as DSW has already mentioned, an aluminum tig weld without filler won't hold crap.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIITo the OP,Did you really expect to produce "professional quality" welds at your experience level?There's no substitute for "hood time".  Consistency comes with time.There are several tricks of the trade that are not (due to lack of adjustability of the Diversion) available to you.  Keep at it and in a few years it will all seem so simple.  Oh, and as DSW has already mentioned, an aluminum tig weld without filler won't hold crap.
Reply:speed,Pulse is not the answer with aluminum.  You want all the heat you can handle.  Aluminum likes to be welded hot and fast.The "adjustments" I'm talking about deal with balance control (ability to control the etch zone adjacent to the bead) and, with the inverters, frequency control, where you're able to better focus the arc.I went back and looked at your website.If you are still holding the torch like you were in the intro photo, I'm amazed that you can achieve the beads that you do.  That photo was almost a "how not to setup for tig welding".I prefer, especially on this type project, to try to keep a palm on the work so as to the unwanted movement from an unsupported arm.  Torch should be held at about a 70 deg angle  to the workpiece and directed at where you are moving.  Filler should be inserted at approximately a 90deg angle to the torch.  I'll often drag my little finger along the workpiece as this helps me guide the torch (the older you get, the more "stability" you can achieve the better).  You can think of this as shooting a firearm.  Where are you more accurate.  Shooting from a supported rest or shooting freestyle?  Even when doing circumference welds around tube, I'll use my little finger as a guide for the torch.  Doesn't provide a lot of support but does act as a 'guide".I prefer to keep my dips closer together.  This is accomplished by running hotter and faster.  The side benefit is that it reduces the HAZ.With tig, I prefer to keep my face much closer to the weld.  I guess some would think that it's because of age, but I've done it that way since I was 18 or so.  Tig is a "precision" process and I need to be close to maintain proper arc length without dipping my tung.You've obviously got a steady hand and good hand/eye coordination.  Try a couple of those suggestions.  The speed will come with time.  If you're still "thinking" about feeding filler with your off hand, you're not there yet.  It should be second nature.PS.  If you go back and look at your website you'll see that you have the torch at about a 90deg angle to the workpiece.  By going to that 70deg angle, you're pushing the heat ahead of the bead, not overheating what you just welded.  Also look at where your support point is.  It's the elbow.  That's a long ways to maintain stability.  Also, on an outside corner your torch should be directed at splitting the 270deg angle created by the vertical and horizontal juncture of the metal, not directed straight down into the workpiece.In welding a seam like shown on that tank, you'll get your best weld by joining the two pieces so the inside corners of the metal just meet.  The bead then fills the gap left by the two pieces.Last edited by SundownIII; 08-23-2011 at 02:06 AM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by speedfreak87What I meant by the gap, was, the cut was at a 90* square, and the bent piece was at a 90* round.. so the little gap needed to be filled and I guess I was more scared of melting the aluminum and ruining the piece.
Reply:I haven't been here long, but I thought I'd throw in 2 cents about aluminium tungsten. I use Zirconiated, and a little trick to ball up the end. I don't know how you sharpen up your tungsten, and eventually it will form a ball anyway.This is just a nice place to start, for what it's worth.It's a 2.4 tungsten with an exaggerated taper grind, about 10mm from the point to the shoulder. But what I do is give it a short burst of about 1 second on about 40amps DCEP. (Not on to your workpiece, on to a piece of scrap)**Your AC tungsten, in your DC TIG, with the leads swapped** I was welding 1.2 sheet when I took these photos to show a friend. If you up the dwell time and/or amps it'll give you a larger ball to suit what you're welding. Try it, you might like it  Like I said, it's a nice place to start with a clean and already formed tungsten. Attached Images
Reply:McNasty,A balled tungsten is not recommended on an inverter.  OP is using a Diversion, which is an inverter.Zirconiated tungsten is a good substitute for pure (handles heat better), but is not recommended on the OP's machine.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIMcNasty,A balled tungsten is not recommended on an inverter.  OP is using a Diversion, which is an inverter.Zirconiated tungsten is a good substitute for pure (handles heat better), but is not recommended on the OP's machine.Oh boy! Time to make some popcorn!
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIspeed,Pulse is not the answer with aluminum.  You want all the heat you can handle.  Aluminum likes to be welded hot and fast.The "adjustments" I'm talking about deal with balance control (ability to control the etch zone adjacent to the bead) and, with the inverters, frequency control, where you're able to better focus the arc.I went back and looked at your website.If you are still holding the torch like you were in the intro photo, I'm amazed that you can achieve the beads that you do.  That photo was almost a "how not to setup for tig welding".I prefer, especially on this type project, to try to keep a palm on the work so as to the unwanted movement from an unsupported arm.  Torch should be held at about a 70 deg angle  to the workpiece and directed at where you are moving.  Filler should be inserted at approximately a 90deg angle to the torch.  I'll often drag my little finger along the workpiece as this helps me guide the torch (the older you get, the more "stability" you can achieve the better).  You can think of this as shooting a firearm.  Where are you more accurate.  Shooting from a supported rest or shooting freestyle?  Even when doing circumference welds around tube, I'll use my little finger as a guide for the torch.  Doesn't provide a lot of support but does act as a 'guide".I prefer to keep my dips closer together.  This is accomplished by running hotter and faster.  The side benefit is that it reduces the HAZ.With tig, I prefer to keep my face much closer to the weld.  I guess some would think that it's because of age, but I've done it that way since I was 18 or so.  Tig is a "precision" process and I need to be close to maintain proper arc length without dipping my tung.You've obviously got a steady hand and good hand/eye coordination.  Try a couple of those suggestions.  The speed will come with time.  If you're still "thinking" about feeding filler with your off hand, you're not there yet.  It should be second nature.PS.  If you go back and look at your website you'll see that you have the torch at about a 90deg angle to the workpiece.  By going to that 70deg angle, you're pushing the heat ahead of the bead, not overheating what you just welded.  Also look at where your support point is.  It's the elbow.  That's a long ways to maintain stability.  Also, on an outside corner your torch should be directed at splitting the 270deg angle created by the vertical and horizontal juncture of the metal, not directed straight down into the workpiece.In welding a seam like shown on that tank, you'll get your best weld by joining the two pieces so the inside corners of the metal just meet.  The bead then fills the gap left by the two pieces.
Reply:Also, would changing the cup help any? currently there is a #7 on the torch.www.thefusionsolution.com
Reply:I use the same cup all the time for pretty much everything. I actually don't know the size of it but it doesn't neck down at all. It is just a strait cup and gas lense. The mani I posted earlier was 3/32 pure tungsten, 17cfm pure argon, and I actually forget what filler I was using but it is 3/32" as well. I started using the bigger aluminum filler about 6 months ago and like it much better then the thinner stuff. It keeps the puddle cooler and I don't have to feed as much to get a bead and it tight spots the torch doesn't melt the tip off as easy.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTI use the same cup all the time for pretty much everything. I actually don't know the size of it but it doesn't neck down at all. It is just a strait cup and gas lense. The mani I posted earlier was 3/32 pure tungsten, 17cfm pure argon, and I actually forget what filler I was using but it is 3/32" as well. I started using the bigger aluminum filler about 6 months ago and like it much better then the thinner stuff. It keeps the puddle cooler and I don't have to feed as much to get a bead and it tight spots the torch doesn't melt the tip off as easy.
Reply:LOL  you sure use a lota of gas turn it down  try CFH not cfm 15cfm welding for a couple o hrs and your outa gas  just had to say that i have said and typed the same miss steakidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:lmao! at least we all know what we're talking about since we've all made the mistake.. lol!www.thefusionsolution.com
Reply:I know i have posted this before. But you should take a good look at John Marcella's intake manifolds. I'm not spamming, I don't know him. His work is the best I have ever seen. It is flawless. Check it out, click on the pics for close ups. He does not use a wire brush (neither does the guy from 6061.com, another mutant welder). It is not necessary. http://www.marcellamanifolds.net/images/Images.htmlwww.performancealuminumfabrication.com
Reply:Originally Posted by travisc454I know i have posted this before. But you should take a good look at John Marcella's intake manifolds. I'm not spamming, I don't know him. His work is the best I have ever seen. It is flawless. Check it out, click on the pics for close ups. He does not use a wire brush (neither does the guy from 6061.com, another mutant welder). It is not necessary. http://www.marcellamanifolds.net/images/Images.html
Reply:Originally Posted by speedfreak87Yeah, his skill amazes me. I've seen his work before, I still can't wrap my head around it. lol!
Reply:No doubt that seeing work like that keeps me wanting to better myself.www.thefusionsolution.com
Reply:Perhaps switching to a Pedal??Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Perhaps switching to a Pedal??
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou really want Black Wolf, Sundown  and others to jump all over you don't you? You don't have enough experience doing tig, let alone alum tig, to be making suggestions on this topic. The simple answer is that pretty much all alum needs filler. You need the extra additives in the filler to prevent cracking issues with alum as well as the additional strength to offset the weakened alum in the bead. Suggesting otherwise just makes you look like an idiot.
Reply:Bad advice to recommend aluminum welds without filler.DSW already addressed the potential for bead cracking in an aluminum autogenious weld.Why would you want to do a non filler weld when you still have to weld the backside to get it to hold?  What's wrong with this picture?Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIBad advice to recommend aluminum welds without filler.DSW already addressed the potential for bead cracking in an aluminum autogenious weld.Why would you want to do a non filler weld when you still have to weld the backside to get it to hold?  What's wrong with this picture?
Reply:I disagree strongly.Frankly, I think it would be sheer stupidity for Speed to try to do that job with no filler.To even suggest that tells me you don't know what you're talking about.Yeah, and I've "melted a little aluminum" in my day and I've done my fair share of autogenous welds in SS, but that's a whole different critter.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIII disagree strongly.Frankly, I think it would be sheer stupidity for Speed to try to do that job with no filler.To even suggest that tells me you don't know what you're talking about.Yeah, and I've "melted a little aluminum" in my day and I've done my fair share of autogenous welds in SS, but that's a whole different critter.
Reply:Trav,Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you not the same poster who on 4-16-11 commented that "I've only been welding for about two years".  The same one who recommended that new welders should avoid the use of a pedal to control amps and go strictly with an on/off switch.I never claimed to be a "master welder" but I have been tig (Heli-Arc) welding aluminum since 1966.  You, my friend, still have a lot to learn.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I wouldn't trust any aluminum weld with no filler. Because it is so easy and looks so nice welding it without filler I tried and tried and tried to get it down where the joint would hold up to any stress test. I use filler always in aluminum!
Reply:Just my $0.02, but the company I work for requires an engineer to approve any autogenous weld, in any material.
Reply:Sometimes, not all the time but sometimes duct tape is the only answer. Having said that, I have learned a lot from this web site and this thread has really helped now I know why my filler was balling up. geeeeeze such a simple thing I changed torch angle and whoope things started looking better.
Reply:Well here we are..Speed..You need filler.You need to come up here someday so I can straighten you out..Sorry Travic..You need filler also..Think real hard now..Would you do this with Al that needs to hold any type of pressure?I mean the no filler deal..Those pics you posted are very nice but will break with a little force..Even a water tank with 100 gals in it under 10 lbs of pressure would be enough to go pop..If the fit up is not PERFECT all bets are off that it would pass any test at all..Truck looks nice though.Suggesting no filler is just plain wrong to someone without 1000000 years of practice.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:And by the way you can't fool me..Pic # 6 down in post # 39 is walking the cup with filler....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterAnd by the way you can't fool me..Pic # 6 down in post # 39 is walking the cup with filler....zap!