Welder Suggestions for Performance Shop

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New member here and i've been researching quite a bit recently as it's come time for my shop to purchase a welder.  We primarily do performance work on japanese vehicles, a lot of turbo cars.  I imagine we will be doing a bunch of aluminum intercooler piping, welding bungs onto stainless and mild steel and other fabrication.  So I'm looking for something versatile but not overly priced as any extensive welding would likely be outsourced when possible to a professional welder.  I was primarily looking at the MM211 for it's dual voltage and auto-set features.  However I then found many people suggesting the TA211i instead because it allows you to do Stick, MIG and TIG and is in the same price area.  Right now I can get the MM211 for around $910 shipped, the lowest I found for the TA211i was just over $1100 shipped.Looking for expert opinions as i'm not well versed in the different machines. I prefer to buy a good quality machine then to buy a cheap one that will likely break.  The other thing is our 110/230V panel is pretty full right now, however we do have 600V 3-phase with room but I believe most of the welders for this would be industrial quality.
Reply:Honestly- " I imagine we will be doing a bunch of aluminum intercooler piping, welding bungs onto stainless and mild steel"This type of welding is really in the Tig world.You are not going to get satisfactory results trying to Mig weld any of those applications.yes, the TA211i has a DC gig function but I believe it is lift arc only- not positive-- and lift arc is not bad per se.You won't be able to do any Aluminum with it- you need AC TigEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Just by the nature of this question and not sure if you are going to be doing the welding but many performance car people are very picky about their look of intercooler tubes and bungs welded, esp. aluminum. They want it perfect. It takes a lot of practice and time behind the helmet to get this right.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:For the I/C piping we would likely just tack weld the pipes and have someone professionally weld them all the way around.
Reply:If you can get the MILLER  211 for $910 shipped, I would jump on that. Is that the current model ?? I just bought one for $1025 and that was local welding supply. If you buy that 211 and add $ 150.00 plus in Miller or Hobart accessories you get 15 % off machine price. That's like getting the machine for around $775.00. Man, that is one hell of a deal. Miller is gonna have a price increase soon according to supplier.
Reply:You are really looking at two welders.Since you are in a shop, presumably 230V is available - maybe even 3-phase.For a lot of stuff on cars you can get away with a 110V welder, but there are definitely times when a 220V is going to be needed.  You might as well buy and setup for 220V.I would recommend actually 2 welders.A 200 Amp (or more) series MIG welder - set with .030, .035 wire and depending on the galvanization on the cars you are working on, a flux core setup as well (sometimes you cannot get to or grind the galvanization off - see Lincoln's E71T-14 wire).  For the budget conscious a used _BRAND_NAME_ machine.  I personally prefer used brand name over brand new Chinese made - YMMV.A 200 Amp (or more) series TIG welder with A/C and high frequency start.  I would recommend a machine capable of higher frequency A/C - which means inverter technology.   And yes, this means looking/pricing something like a Dynasty.  Even used ones aren't cheap (see Ebay/Craigslist).  However, on aluminum they are awesome.  Instant puddle, great arc control etc. etc.  I personally would opt for water cooled torch and a 25ft cable (both torch and work) and make sure you get a cable protector for that torch (protect the tubing etc. from sparks, spatter, a dropping molten steel.As for cost, can you get a cheaper TIG and get the same end results?  Absolutely.  Its just that higher frequency TIG makes it easier for newbs like me - higher welding frequency makes Aluminum TIG almost like TIG on steel (just the puddle moves differently).Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Syncrowave 250 and a MM252 and you will never want for anything in an auto shop. If budget is an issue a TA181 will get you through most jobs save for Aluminum that needs to be TIG welded.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Something to think about... your shop has to make money,with that said the TA 211i, is a 3 in one unit so when one part of that unit is down and needs to go in to a shop to  be worked on you are with out a welder..
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1If you can get the MILLER  211 for $910 shipped, I would jump on that. Is that the current model ?? I just bought one for $1025 and that was local welding supply. If you buy that 211 and add $ 150.00 plus in Miller or Hobart accessories you get 15 % off machine price. That's like getting the machine for around $775.00. Man, that is one hell of a deal. Miller is gonna have a price increase soon according to supplier.
Reply:Thanks for all the input so far, it seems maybe i'm way off base or i'm trying to accomplish things with the wrong equipment.  I was hoping to purchase one piece that would take care of 95% of the work and the other 5% can be tack welded and sent out to be hand TIG welded by a professional.  Things I'd like to be able to do.-Weld on O2 sensor bungs for Wideband Gauges into steel exhaust components-Weld Steel or Aluminum Brackets for mounting components-Fix broken exhausts-Design/Mock up Aluminum piping
Reply:Originally Posted by TougeTuningThanks for all the input so far, it seems maybe i'm way off base or i'm trying to accomplish things with the wrong equipment.  I was hoping to purchase one piece that would take care of 95% of the work and the other 5% can be tack welded and sent out to be hand TIG welded by a professional.  Things I'd like to be able to do.-Weld on O2 sensor bungs for Wideband Gauges into steel exhaust components-Weld Steel or Aluminum Brackets for mounting components-Fix broken exhausts-Design/Mock up Aluminum piping
Reply:I do what you say you want to do. The only welder I will recommend is a 220v TIG machine. I have a lincoln square wave 175 TIG and it does everything you are looking to do.You don't need new, start watching for used machines and get a nicer machine in your budget.
Reply:Lincoln Precision Tig 225 would be my machine for your needs. Great stick welder also.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Your 600V 3 phase opens you up to some really great deals on a used machine.  Most people don't have that power supply, so there's a much smaller pool of buyers.There's a brand new in box Syncrowave 200 on my local CL that's a 3 phase machine.  It will likely sit forever.As far as new machines go, you can't beat the new TA186 tig for the price.  Seems they are still ironing out some problems with the arc control at this point, but it's half the price of a Dynasty.   However, if I was a pro and making money from my machine, I'd go with a Miller Dynasty all the way.  You cannot beat the performance, and more importantly, the support that you will get from Miller.  They simply have the best customer service, hands down.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255There's a brand new in box Syncrowave 200 on my local CL that's a 3 phase machine.  It will likely sit forever.
Reply:Htp 221 tig/stick welder. That's what all the performance shops around here use.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I have been welding since 1979 but I wouldn't call myself an expert. With that said, if I were you I would start off with a Hobart 230 ironman because it's a lot of machine for the money. I personally don't like digital readouts as it's more junk to break down. The Ironman can weld many things and it has more than enough power to weld thick stuff. After you learn how to mig / flux cored weld I then would save my money and buy a good tig machine.Remember I'm not an expert ! Good luck and have fun!
Reply:What's the consensus on the Miller Diversion 180?
Reply:Great machine. Little over priced I think because of the lack of options. I wouldn't think it's ideal for intercooler end tanks.For a few bucks more the htp 221 is a good machine. Or Thermal arc 186. Or a nice used miller or Lincoln. I think you can get a Lincoln precision tig for around the same price as the miller too.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:W/ 3 phase power I wouldn't even think about a new machine.  Especially not an import.Just pick up a used 3phase AC/DC TIG.  Last machine you're ever need.Syncrowave 300Maxtron 450, S-52E, 30A