#!@$ing 6010. Vert Up.

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I am in school. Last week we started vert up with 6010 and for the life of me I cannot get it. I had no problems with flat, no problems with horizontal, and even though we aren't taught it in class, I had no problems running it downhill. I just cannot seem to get vert up. Amps? I've run it from 60-100 and still nothing. I even got frustrated one day and ran it at 210 amps (way too hot by the way). I've tried whip and pause, little "e", and even tried dragging it. We are using that Lincoln 6010 5+ stuff. Sometimes I get too hot, sometimes too cold, sometimes I get you changed your angle. I fix those things and I still get sh**. I've tried running the electrode using the angle markings on the holder. I've tried running it 90 degrees. I've tried running it by putting the electrode in the top and bending it into an angle. When I was running it horizontal and flat I was told that they could see that I understood how to see/move the puddle. If it matters, we are running overlapping stringers (hard surfacing I guess) on 3/8" plate, 1/8" 6010 5+.Here are a couple photos. In one of them you can see where I ran a few beads horizontal real quick just for comparison. Please comment, give me help, whatever. Just please refrain from the "you suck" comments because I already know that. Thanks.
Reply:Any chance your teacher can look over your shoulder a few times in a row?  I bet it would help a lot.Check out this video, maybe it will help?Dave J.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f_UUo9i7IY[/ame]Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Now that I look again at your horizontal weld vs your vertical up - it looks to me like you are putting a lot more metal down traveling up.  It would seem to indicate too slow of a travel speed?Have you tried motoring up faster?Be interesting to see if DSW agrees or has a different take.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I will try to find my plate from today in the scrap bin tomorrow and take a photo of it. Half downhill, half up. I've tried going faster and from what I've been told is that when I go faster I 1) don't let the puddle form and/or 2) not burning enough rod. If it's not one thing, it's another. I'm beginning to think I'm just not an uphill welder which kind of blows. Haha.
Reply:Originally Posted by rschreckI will try to find my plate from today in the scrap bin tomorrow and take a photo of it. Half downhill, half up. I've tried going faster and from what I've been told is that when I go faster I 1) don't let the puddle form and/or 2) not burning enough rod. If it's not one thing, it's another. I'm beginning to think I'm just not an uphill welder which kind of blows. Haha.
Reply:I have noticed a huge difference in different 6011 rods, not sure about the 6010, but I would assume its the same. I never liked the red ones  although they were good on rusty/ dirty steel. A 6011 called " easy arc" by airco seemed to run much smoother than other brands. I have not tried 6010 VS 6011 on DC. All that said, your vertical up looks like mine!
Reply:Try sticking with the whip and pause, just try whipping out of the puddle farther to keep the impending heat globs at bay. As previously stated it looks like you are hanging out in the puddle a bit too long thus giving you the hangers. As soon as the puddle rounds out, get moving. Good luck you'll get it.
Reply:Whip it. Deposit a small amount of metal with a short arc then whip out just long enough to see the puddle start to solidify then whip back in very close or darn near on top of the first deposit and deposit another small bit of metal with a short arc. Do that all the way up. Keep consistent with the amount of metal you deposit each time you whip back in.  As you whip out then whip back in, make your metal deposits very close to each other. That's how you get that stack of dimes look. You are holding too long while you are depositing metal. There ain't anything pretty about 6010. But once you figure it out, it's a piece of cake to run. It's great for filling large gaps. Works great for piercing holes in steel also.Last edited by snoeproe; 04-22-2013 at 08:43 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I would say you can't read the puddle yet. Looks like you are possibly going to slow.I was running some 6010 vert last week in class. I thought I'd taken picts of them, but it doesn't look like I did. I do have one example of a 6010 weave someone else ran. Not the greatest picts. I had the piece out in the truck so I ran out and took the shots. 1/8" 6010, 85 or 90 amps IIRC. weave over 1 pass on 3/8" plate vertical. Picts unfortunately make the weld look worse than it really is. I had to play with the contrast to get anything to show up. The bead is much smoother than it looks in those picts. Also it looks like all that was done was simply dragging the hammer over the bead, so it would look better if it was brushed a bit more.Last edited by DSW; 04-22-2013 at 09:20 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeWhip it. Deposit a small amount of metal with a short arc then whip out just long enough to see the puddle start to solidify then whip back in very close or darn near on top of the first deposit and deposit another small bit of metal with a short arc. Do that all the way up.
Reply:^^^^That is the definition is the Lincoln teaching manual for keeping a "cool" puddle.From:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...tatorGuide.pdfLESSON INSTRUCTIONSExercise A: (vertical down) Run a bead with a whipping technique to keep the puddle “hot”.1. Clean the base metal and position flat.2. Set the polarity and amperage: DC+ at 70-110A for 1/8” E6010 electrode.3. Hold electrode upright, inclined 65 to 70 degrees in the direction of travel.4. Assume a position that permits you to see behind and ahead of the arc so that corrections canbe made while welding.5. Strike the arc and carry the bead with a normal arc length during the entire whipping motion.The whipping motion to keep the puddle “hot” or fluid should be about 5/16” forward and 1/8”to 1/4” back toward the crater, depending upon the size of the bead desired. When thebackward motion is completed, hesitate in the electrode motion. Penetration is obtained on the“hesitation” of the backward motion. The longer the hesitation, the larger the weld deposit. Thelength of the backward motion controls the ripple appearance of the weld. With the exceptionof the hesitation, the motion is rapid.6. Practice the motion using different length of return strokes, until you can build up a heavy orlight bead.7. Visually inspectExercise B: (vertical up and overhead) Run a bead with the whipping technique used to keep a puddle “cool”.1. Follow steps 1 to 4 in Exercise A.2. Strike the arc and carry the bead with a normal arc length on the backward stroke, and a longarc, 3/8” to ½”, at the hesitation point of the forward stroke. Move the arc ahead with a forwardstroke of approximately 3/8”, hesitate, holding the long arc, then move backward approximately¼” to the front half of the partially solidified crater, assuming a normal arc length. The long arcon the forward stroke reduces penetration, as well as the amount of metal deposited, andallows the welder to see how the puddle is solidifying. Shortening the arc on the backwardstroke allows a normal deposition of the metal. A longer hesitation will allow the crater tosolidify more. Returning the arc to the partially solidified crater will not cause slag to be trappedin the weld, because it has not had time to completely solidify.3. Visually inspect**Sample shown on slide: 1/8” Fleetweld 5P+ (E6010), DC+, 85A**Dave J.Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 04-23-2013 at 07:20 AM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Man I feel your pain...mainly because Im in the exact same fix too. It doesnt help that our instructor is a good welder but not too good at instructing...Im going to try the tips in this thread today in class.Hobart Stickmate LX235AC/160DCRanger 305GVictor 315 O/A rigHope to acquire in the next couple of years: Hypertherm PM45 and Dynasty 200DX
Reply:I assume the 2 beads near the center are your Horizontal beads?Looks like to me your going to slow but also staying to far apart, as said above when you bring the rod back down from your whip out bring it almost rite on top of the last puddle (dime) your Horizontal looks to far spaced as well.I have been working on my 7018 Vert up for more than a month now, don't get discouraged Gravity is really working against you, going up, the difference from just rite , to slow, to fast, to long, not long enough, are minimal.   Listen to the guys on here, try to find as many Videos as you can to watch, remember no 2 welders do it exactly the same.   One other thing to try, only run 2" of weld and stop, analyze what you just did, try something a little different until you find the result you are looking for.Good luck you will get it
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinInteresting explanation. I'm trying to visualize this technique.Are you saying that when you "whip out," you are using a longer arc length and have the rod more angled upward to the workpiece ... and then when you whip back to the puddle, you're using a real short arc with the rod perpendicular to the workpiece?
Reply:Thanks Jason. Normally when I run 6010 or 6011 I don't whip but I'll have to try this...