Educate me please! Need to buy a TIG welder

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Hello all!I need help. I am sure there are threads here with the information I could piece together. But to be honest, I don't want to get confused and it would be much easier and better for me to have all of the advice/opinions in one place. Plus, most people here are very knowledgeable and for the most part, this doesn't seem to be a "SEARCH FIRST OR DIE POSTING", which I appreciate. I am currently enrolled in a welding degree program at a local community college....and I'm absolutely hooked. My dream job is to be a fabricator and build bikes/race cars...even on the side if that is not a realistic occupation...The main downfall of the program I am enrolled in is the lack of MIG/TIG classes. There are at least 3 classes devoted entirely to Arc welding (which I'm currently in), but only 1 class combined for MIG/TIG, and another class for flux core.TIG welding is what I really want to learn. I'm fascinated by it, although I have never done it.Soo, I wanna teach myself and TIG weld as much as possible...and this leads me to buying my own machine. Plus, I'm going to need a machine sometime down the line anyway...I am going to be honest, I know a decent amount of information about how the TIG welding process works, but very little about the differences between machines/what to buy.I would prefer to keep everything under $2,500 if possible. Will bend on that if I need to. I want quality equipment, but I can't afford to dish out several grand at the moment (full time job and full time student!).Can you guys give me some recommendations and steer me in the right directions for what to buy and where to buy?Is there any place that sells a machine 'ready to go' for lack of a better term? (obviously minus tanks, but I'm talking more the machine and leads). Kinda looking for a breakdown of what I would need, starting with nothing (other than the safety equipment)...Hope that made sense. Thanks in advance!
Reply:I am an inverter guy, so here goes.ThermalArc186.  It is a true inverter tig with distribution countrywide at many LWS and online. Comes with a 3 year warranty, and authorized repair centers are in every state and large cities. Beware that there is some issue with foot controls that are made by SCC, but that is being worked out. Second choice would be the Miller Diversion180, ac,dc, dual voltage, easy as pie inverter tig. Same warranty and service centers around the country. If  you can't learn on a Diversion, go home.Both companies are highly recognized, and professionals will not laugh you down the street(not that I would). Both are turnkey systems, with the Diversion stupid simple to hit the floor running.The Tranny guys can now chime in............Last edited by shovelon; 04-18-2013 at 11:19 AM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Keep you eye on CL for a used Syncrowave 250. Should be able to get that in your budget. Excellent machine, though a little on the heavy side when compared to the inverters.
Reply:You can get a TA186 with foot pedal for $1,694..  It's compact and efficient on input power.A used Sync 250 is a good choice if you have space and a big breaker.  It's about 300 pounds heavier than the TA186."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:unless you have a good source of 220 VAC power supply at 70+ amps, I also suggest the Inverter route. TA-186 is a great choice, I just got a Longevity Tigweld 200ex try out and it looks Identical to the TA186,  Its my understanding that its made in the same factory.     Haven't had a chance to weld with it yet as it just arrived yesterday.  with these machines you r getting stick and AC/DC TIG with full pulse functions so it will be good for learning Stainless Steel and other exotic alloys.   Also with a 3 or 5 year warranty you will be good to go and probably be selling it before the warranty is up to get a Dynasty if you stick with school and get a job welding.  There was a Racing car company advertizing for tig welders here recently.  see the employment sub forum.  Even if you do not have the experience required on lots of these TIG employment offers, Interview anyway offer to work cheap and be a grunt or ask for the opportunity to do an apprenticeship.  have a good work ethic and the view that you know nothing and swallow your pride and just put the time in.Last edited by soutthpaw; 04-18-2013 at 01:30 PM.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I bet you can get a nice Dynasty for the budget you have.  I really don't have jack for experience so take it with a grain of salt.I personally bought a Multimatic 200 and for the price of the TIG contractor kit I bought a dedicated TIG machine (Esab Miniarc 161 lts).  I already know the Multimatic is a VERY capable machine but it doesn't have some of the features a high-end TIG would have like high-freq, pulse, waves...ectThis site is FANTASTIC for learning..,I'm still learning something everyday!  I'd literally be lost without this site and a handful of others.
Reply:Budget: Eastwood tig 200Longevity 200exThermal arc 186Baller:HTP 221Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Shovelon is a wealth of knowledge and I'd strongly suggest heading his advice. To go along with that between the two machines, I'd say the TA-186 is a better option it has more controls and adjustments than the Diversions (TA is harder to use at first but less limiting down the road) The old transformer machines like the Syncrowaves are bigger (size) and draw more current. You'll need more physical room and a higher amperage circuit to power them. If you have both of those things, you can get a machine that will weld thicker metal for less money. And will potentially last longer with less problems. Some people are not fans of inverter machines due to their high number of circuit boards and the cost to repair them. As for what you'll need. Here's a list.1. Welder2. leads - ground lead with clamp and torch lead with head3. Gas regulator with flowmeter4. Gas tank - Argon (would recommend 80cf or larger you don't want to have to fill it all the time)5. Tungstens 1/16" would be where I would start.6. Filler rod- some ER70 for mild steel. 1/16" as well. 7. I'd buy one of the torch kits that come with a variety of gas cups and collets. It just will come in handy later.8. Scrap metal to practice9. Grinder or sander to prep metal10. small grinder to sharpen tungstens11. Foot control - not required, but if you were to TIG professionally you really should be able to weld with a pedal and weld with controls on the torch. I think I covered all the random parts.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawunless you have a good source of 220 VAC power supply at 70+ amps, I also suggest the Inverter route. TA-186 is a great choice, I just got a Longevity Tigweld 200ex try out and it looks Identical to the TA186,  Its my understanding that its made in the same factory.     Haven't had a chance to weld with it yet as it just arrived yesterday.  with these machines you r getting stick and AC/DC TIG with full pulse functions so it will be good for learning Stainless Steel and other exotic alloys.   Also with a 3 or 5 year warranty you will be good to go and probably be selling it before the warranty is up to get a Dynasty if you stick with school and get a job welding.  There was a Racing car company advertizing for tig welders here recently.  see the employment sub forum.  Even if you do not have the experience required on lots of these TIG employment offers, Interview anyway offer to work cheap and be a grunt or ask for the opportunity to do an apprenticeship.  have a good work ethic and the view that you know nothing and swallow your pride and just put the time in.
Reply:http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/tls/3720470641.htmlThis same guy has another one that is a few years newer for a few hundred dollars more.I like inverters too, but in your situation, I would recommend something like this. In a few years after you get settled in and know more about what you are going to do, then upgrade.I doubt that you will run into anything that you cannot do with the syncrowave 250.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleBudget: Eastwood tig 200Longevity 200exThermal arc 186Baller:HTP 221
Reply:I'm learning to tig on a small inverter stick welder with lift tig mode. It's DC only so it will work on steel and stainless but not aluminum. If you are going to buy a stick machine anyway perhaps that is an option for you as well.I have no personal experience but Thermal Arc 161S seems to be a decent single phase dual voltage stick/tig machine. There are other options as well, for instance the multiprocess machines like thermal arc 181i that will do stick, DC tig and mig.The Miller Maxstar 150 STL/STH would be another stick/DC Tig option to consider if you are getting a stick machine.Last edited by Pete.S.; 04-18-2013 at 08:11 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Pete.S.I'm learning to tig on a small inverter stick welder with lift tig mode. It's DC only so it will work on steel and stainless but not aluminum. If you are going to buy a stick machine anyway perhaps that is an option for you as well.I have no personal experience but Thermal Arc 161S seems to be a decent single phase dual voltage stick/tig machine. There are other options as well, for instance the multiprocess machines like thermal arc 181i that will do stick, DC tig and mig.The Miller Maxstar 150 STL/STH would be another stick/DC Tig option to consider if you are getting a stick machine.
Reply:Really depends on the space and power you have.You have to consider resale value as well as you are looking at this as a career.  You will likely grow out of whatever you buy first and either sell it or keep it as a backup machine.If you have the space and power, it's a Syncro 250 hands down.  You can get one set up with everything for $1500 if you can watch and wait.  You will get every penny back for it if you decide to sell it.  It has the power you will need to do 1/4" aluminum someday.  A 200 amp machine will barely do that without preheat or expensive Helium mix.  Many shops running the newest inverters have a Syncro 250 tucked away in the corner.A Miller Shopmaster is a great machine.  With an HF box and a feeder, it's the only machine around that can do EVERY process.  It's a Sine wave machine, so the AC arc is gonna be different and a bit harder to control than a true square wave machine like a Syncro.  but you can AC/DC Tig, stick and Mig with one machine.  The ultimate backup machine some day.If you wanna go inverter, I'd strongly advise a used TA185 (not 186) in the $1000-1500 range.  It's a great machine with a ton of features and a proven track record.  great durability and puts out 199 amps according to some that have measured.  The 186 is just too new for me.  Being Chinese made in possibly the same factory as Everlast throws me off a bit too (not looking to start a war here so let's not).  The two TA TIGs I've owned we're Jap made.A Dynasty 200 would be your best choice in terms of features and resale.  You'll want a newer year one with blue lightening arc starting, so I doubt it's in your budget unless you can pony up another grand or wait a long time.  I'm no welding pro, but I've spent alot of time looking for machines.You need to post your location in the user CP.  Alot of us here enjoy shopping for machines, even when we cannot fit another in our shops.  We may come across a great buy for you.Last edited by Drf255; 04-19-2013 at 04:44 AM.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawIf he wants to get into racing he will need AC so that he can weld aluminum.   Also I personally think learning TIG on aluminum is easier.   not to start a debate as we have covered that before and the forum is pretty much a 50/50 split on teaching steel vs Al first
Reply:The new TA welds as nice as any older Thermal-arc tig. Looks like on the inside, there is a better design as far as dust control over the older Sanrex version. More room inside, and but also a larger machine.Very clean design overall Has a few bugs in the control/ft pedal layout, but fixable. It's a better welder then the original TA-185, and the second version Prowave 185. Matches the last version on the Arcmaster 185 in weld quality Very nice!. There were three versions of the 185. I like the new panel layout better then the earlier version, The 186 looses it's contactor on /repeat mode of the 185 but gains in purge button, and arc force for stick . I have not used that area yet, but with the higher OCV,/ arc force, it should work like the other new Thermal machines. Outstanding really..  The fan noise is louder then the old ones, but they are all loud compared to the Original Sanrex Peewee 85 S Which I have, and think is the coolest little unit ever built by Thermal. Not sure where you would gain anything in reliability buying a HTP? Just as unproven as the rest of this things. Longevity looks like a pretty good unit too, Since there are some difference in features You would have to strip down both units, and see where they differ. Remember, late model machines like a Lincoln or Syncro have circuit  boards in them that cost more then these little inverters. (Without labor) so you are not totally safe buying anything without a warranty.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerKeep you eye on CL for a used Syncrowave 250.
Reply:One thing about these inverters... Unless you try different brands and type of tungstens, you will never know how good the AC arc is. Huge difference between them. Good place to start is Diamond ground, for the real German made ones... Tri-mix, Grinding them correctly another biggie. Super long taper is no good at all.The new purple ones out are a cheap Chinese copy of the trimixs ones, and are inferior. (IMO)http://www.diamondground.com/Cryo-t_pink.htmlhttp://www.diamondground.com/tri-mix.htmlLast edited by Brand X; 04-19-2013 at 02:22 PM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:Hey Brand X,  you got any links to internal pic of a TA 186.   I just took some internal pics of the Longevity 200ex.   I am curious to see if there aree similarities.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawHey Brand X,  you got any links to internal pic of a TA 186.   I just took some internal pics of the Longevity 200ex.   I am curious to see if there aree similarities.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XNot too many, only the left side cover. Other side was sealed under a cover which protects from dirt/etc.. Heat sinks are out in the tunnel from that side. The front/back covers had to come off to get the top cover off. So only left side picture. Nice layout though...I will see if I can find one of my larger sanrex. Compact, and jammed in there.. Sure is a nice welding unit though.. Here is one picture, when I replaced the front cover from shipping damage. Not that easy to get apart at all. If you want to replace the front cover, the back one should come off too. Circuit breaker wire runs clear to the back. It does not disconnect from the front, but now it does. Layer after layer of Boards. The 185 has to be even worse to work on..
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawI did not take the front cover off.  But that first pic looks aweful similar to the Longevity 200ex. even the part numbers on the boards match!
Reply:Originally Posted by copeImagine that!
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XProbably a good thing some Part # match up. Means more options on getting parts..Since they are so close in price, the Thermal-arc seems like the better long term buy, Not machine, but resale value because of the name.. Price went up a $100 on mine already, so might be like the last 185 machine in holding it's value..
Reply:Originally Posted by copeImagine that!Originally Posted by Brand XDoes your foot pedal give you preset amp ability? Just wondering how the foot pedal is setup on the 200EX ?
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XDoes your foot pedal give you preset amp ability? Just wondering how the foot pedal is setup on the 200EX ?
Reply:There is an adjustment on the side of the pedal but no markings.   Last night it was instantly balling my tungsten which was weird, even on 20amps.    I'm missing something in the setup,   will try it again today and see if I figure out what is going on as inverters r supposed to run pointed.  (Using red/blue tungsted)Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:What balance are you at?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawThere is an adjustment on the side of the pedal but no markings.   Last night it was instantly balling my tungsten which was weird, even on 20amps.    I'm missing something in the setup,   will try it again today and see if I figure out what is going on as inverters r supposed to run pointed.  (Using red/blue tungsted)
Reply:I found the problem.  even though the AC/DC switch appears to work, the machine is stuck in DC mode regardless.   It was my first thought that I was in DC so Checked everything else and finally put the multimeter across the terminals.   Waiting for a reply from Simon on possible fix..and the knob on the pedal just sets the pedal range to 0-100% of the current set on the machine.   seems a bit redundant to me, I just set it to 100%.Last edited by soutthpaw; 04-20-2013 at 02:08 PM.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawI found the problem.  even though the AC/DC switch appears to work, the machine is stuck in DC mode regardless.   It was my first thought that I was in DC so Checked everything else and finally put the multimeter across the terminals.   Waiting for a reply from Simon on possible fix..and the knob on the pedal just sets the pedal range to 0-100% of the current set on the machine.   seems a bit redundant to me, I just set it to 100%.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XDoes your foot pedal give you preset amp ability? Just wondering how the foot pedal is setup on the 200EX ?
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XHere is the point,,, With the foot pedal plugged in does the machine show the amps before you weld with it? That is the issue Thermal-arc had with their unit. They wanted to be able to see the amps (preview) while setting up the machine. Reason for SSC controls to make a different setup (Part #) then the pedal for the 181i to 252i machines. Those preview the amps correctly before welding From the one video on the net, the Longevity seems to show 10 amp before welding in AC with the ft pedal connected. 5 amps DC.. Is your machine stuck on 5 amps with the ft pedal plugged in?Lot of writing to get one simple question answered..
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawI found the problem.  even though the AC/DC switch appears to work, the machine is stuck in DC mode regardless.   It was my first thought that I was in DC so Checked everything else and finally put the multimeter across the terminals.   Waiting for a reply from Simon on possible fix..and the knob on the pedal just sets the pedal range to 0-100% of the current set on the machine.   seems a bit redundant to me, I just set it to 100%.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleIt's setup the same way as the other longevity machines. Where the amperage control is on the foot pedal.If the 200ex has the scc foot pedal and displayed the amperage on the display it would outsell the thermal arc in a heartbeat. If the price stayed the same of course.
Reply:Originally Posted by copeScott, I replied to your earlier question just now.  To expand, when I set the amps on the panel with pedal plugged in, the knob lets me set the desired amperage.  A second or so later, the display drops back to the minimum 5/10 amps.  When I use the pedal, amperage increases to pre set max at horizontal, but drops off if I max the pedal.
Reply:If u r using the thumb control it will display actual welding current as you rotate the dial on the torch.   As there is the button for the contactor separate from the current control u gotta press that when actually welding.   The pedal, because it activates the contactor as soon as u step on it would be hot at all times when the pedal is depressed.    But if u hold the torch away from the work it responds the same was as the thumb control and u see the current change on the display as u depress the pedal.   Obviously the current is going to show 10 or 5 (lowest capable current) because when yr foot is off the pedal the pedal is in the low position.   Same as if u rotate the thumb control to zero each time u stop welding..Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by copeScott, I replied to your earlier question just now.  To expand, when I set the amps on the panel with pedal plugged in, the knob lets me set the desired amperage.  A second or so later, the display drops back to the minimum 5/10 amps.  When I use the pedal, amperage increases to pre set max at horizontal, but drops off if I max the pedal.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XThermal is setup different, so there are some wiring/pot/interface differences. Machine has some differences,even in the front panel layout. Things are moved around inside, and who knows what all is different inside them?